Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

If the running late call happens you have to be firm and let the school handle it with him.

No problem with dinner with us once a fortnight but I worry the school pick up is too much of a slippery slope.

Ah yes, I see that. You'd still be in a parent role if you were doing the school run. Then perhaps your DH could pay for a taxi to take them from school to your place? Whatever would work.

Hes your husband and you have been raising the kids full time, why punish them?

If you werent willing to be a parent you frankly shouldnt have got with a man with kids and took on that roll but this now isnt about what you or him want you dragged children into it and their best interests come first.

You dont just get to dump kids because they arent technically your blood when you choose to take on a role of raising them as a main stable parent. You choose that (they didnt get too) and now want to abandon them like a deadbeat because you dont want their dad anymore so there relationship is disposible like dumping a cat at a shelter... pretty gross when you think about it.

Interesting that the majority of responses on these issues put the adults’ needs first. Hardly anyone puts the children’s best interests first.

@Nanny0gg

So, they've been abandoned by their mother, their father hasn't particularly been interested and now their stepmother only wants to know on a limited basis.

I'm sorry, but I feel really sorry for those kids.

I feel the same way.

I understand OP isn't particularly keen on taking care of her ex's DC, but she's been in their lives full time for the past 4 years and has played a significant role in their lives. Leaving them with their father and refusing all contact seems a bit harsh, I'd try to stay in contact with them and invite them over for dinner every once in a while. Not for him, but for the children.

I’m not trying to guilt-trip but just imagine for a moment you were one of the children in question reading this thread about yourself and your sibling. It would be crushing.

OP I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare

He didn't think about what was right and fair when you were doing ALL the childcare for all 3 children...

I think you’re being very cold to your DSC with not wanting to see them anymore. They lived with you full time! I really hate when adults play a parent role in a child’s life then just abandon them when a relationship ends. It really fucks up their head, causes attachment issues etc. Sounds like your DSC will already be dealing with these things because of their DM and now you’re doing the same thing. Poor kids.

@mam0918

Hes your husband and you have been raising the kids full time, why punish them?

If you werent willing to be a parent you frankly shouldnt have got with a man with kids and took on that roll but this now isnt about what you or him want you dragged children into it and their best interests come first.

You dont just get to dump kids because they arent technically your blood when you choose to take on a role of raising them as a main stable parent. You choose that (they didnt get too) and now want to abandon them like a deadbeat because you dont want their dad anymore so there relationship is disposible like dumping a cat at a shelter... pretty gross when you think about it.

Their dad should have considered their welfare when he treated OP as he did.

OP is trying to very carefully consider what is best for her, her child and is also thinking of the DSC. What else is she supposed to do? The relationship is over, everyone needs to come to terms with that and OP is trying to work out the best way of doing it.

Could you agree to come and visit at his house the step children but only when he is supervising. If he genuinely only care about the kids welfare this should be no issue. Don’t agree to pick them up or anything so he has to be present.

invite them over for dinner every once in a while

And I did suggest as such in my opening post.

It's not a black and white situation though and, perhaps you think selfishly, I am trying to work out a way forward that also doesn't involve me essentially being in the same situation that I'm trying to get out of.

I am all for hearing opinions and have been open to many here but I really am not seeing the point of the 'You knew he had children' replies. Of course I did. There's no argument there but I'm not really sure of its relevance

You're not sure of the relevance? You willingly took on a full time parenting role of 2 young children, who you now want to drop like a hot shit because it no longer suits you, and you're not sure of the bloody relevance?

God, those poor kids. Abandoned by their mother, a useless dad, and a stepmother who sees them as utterly disposable. No, they aren't your children. But you chose to parent them, you chose it. They didn't.

I totally get why you want a clean break. If you feel you've been taken advantage of through the marriage, then part of separating will be about reclaiming your time, your decisions, your labour. I actually think that's not petty or selfish at all, it's really important for you to move on, and even for your relationship with him to move on. Boundaries are really important, especially at the start.

If he's still perpetuating the 'taking' behaviour, and you're still letting him- then the shitty dynamic doesn't end it just transfers from a marriage to a coparenting relationship. It's not good for anyone if you're still carrying resentment.

If you have a clean break in terms of the labour- the grunt work (meals, school runs, childcare) then I think that creates a pathway for a healthy relationship between everyone, including the DSC.

I agree with PPs- have them over for dinner (he drops them off and picks them up) on days that suit you. Or take them to the zoo on the weekend etc. but no 'parenting' you're transitioning to 'fun ex-step mum/cool auntie' status and away from pseudo mum status.

@romdowa

Yanbu and he needs to start parenting his children. Obviously he wants you to continue raising them for him so he doesn't have to bother. Those two children have two parents and sadly they are both useless but that's not your problem. As heartless as it may sound but he is not doing this for their sake.

I agree with the above.

For his children's sake, as well as yours, HE needs to spend time with them, not palm them off on you so he can continue to live a comparatively free and unencumbered life.

I hope that you do decide to see them occasionally for tea, trip to pictures, whatever, (it will be good for them and for your child) but they are NOT your responsibility, and you have your own child/life to think of.

These are very early days, too - in a year or two you might meet someone else - and you certainly won't need the responsibility of regular contact with your ex's kids.

Stick to your guns. Yes it is hard on them, but the solution was in his hands (to shift his lazy arse and help around the house) and he decided he'd rather split up.

As an earlier poster cruelly but very accurately put it "Not your circus. Not your monkeys."

Don’t lose sight of what YOU want in all of this. You said you are happy to have occasional flexible contact. Now posters have suggested weekly tea time you’re considering that, but it isn’t what you want and seems it has potential to become burdensome as your life moves on following divorce. Boundaries as to how the relationship with DSC evolves is important at this stage for you and for them.

Your DC will maintain a relationship with your DSC via contact time with your STBXH. You don’t need to do anything else to facilitate that.

At 9 & 12 DSC are old enough to understand an explanation that there is to be a divorce, that it is not their fault, that you love them, and that you will keep in touch and invite them to spend time with you as you love them and will miss them.

Then you can decide whether you are taking them on a monthly cinema trip or having them for weekly dinners as a genuine relationship with them rather than a burden placed on you in meeting the needs of their Dad. Again, boundaries not burdens!

Considering the ages they are, they may soon find they are more interested in seeing friends and taking part in extra curricular activities than having a regular arrangement with their Dad’s ex wife. I think the flexibility is important on both sides.

I wouldn't class it as I chose to be a full time parent to them though. I was, because my husband ended up being absolutely useless and despite me repeatedly trying to get him to do more he didn't, so yes I dealt with day to day aspects of parenting out of necessity because he wouldn't, I didn't choose that, it wasn't what I wanted (and I am sure my DSC would have preferred their Dad to be more involved too!).

I think you have to think of it from the point of view of your DSC and your DC's relationship with them. Take crap ex out the equation for the moment. It's guaranteed he'll push boundaries and start asking you to pick up slack. You'll have to fight those battles as they pop up with your own strong boundaries. But don't let his future behaviour cloud THIS issue for the time being. Think instead about what you're comfortable facilitating and go from there.

Some are totally missing the point, I don't think OP was ever intended to be the main caregiver, the childrens biological parents have put her in this shit position by being useless themselves.

Whilst I feel sorry for the children, I do also feel sorry for OP who should never have been put in this position in the first place and is beating herself up now wondering what to do, when she is about to go through a divorce, has a young child herself and doesn't know what to do.

Maybe we should save the attitude for the father in this equation, you know, the one who brought them into the world and has parental responsibility for them. And lets not forget, him dumping childcare and generally not helping is the whole crux of why they are separating, hardly surprising that OP does not want this to continue and is looking for a fair compromise that benefits everyone, not just him.

God I don't know OP.

One thing I was very sure of when my marriage ended was that I would not do any kind of serious relationship or having a partner move in until my DC had left home. I appreciate that's an extreme view but the potential for further hurt to children was very clear in my mind.

I don't think YABU. Of course, he needs to take primary responsibility for his DC, and it seems clear he's neglected to do this & left it to you during your marriage.

So you are entirely right to try & set boundaries now, as it would seem very likely he'll use you even after separation.

But thinking about 2 little DC (they are little) without much contact with their mum, who have lived with you for 4 years, and adore their sibling - your DC - I don't think I could be that resolute.

I think it would be very important to get good legal advice. I mean, essentially, you have no parental responsibility, and down the line, if he was in a new relationship, I think he could just stop contact, potentially hurting all 3 DC, and you? Is that right? (I don't know).

But I think you need to offer more than just a dinner every second week. I'm also thinking of the DSC. if their dad hasn't been great, you were providing a parental role to them, and it'll be gone overnight. It sounds brutal.

It's not fair on you. I accept that. But I'm thinking of the kids. I think you need to put them first & offer more contact.

I think it needs to agreed in stages:

1. Your settlement & contact plan which works for you and your DC and excludes his DC
2. A regular but not binding agreement to see them e.g. once per week/fortnight
3. Over time, more or less as you feel comfortable.

And as pp said, no school runs and no overnights. He does seem to be taking the mick, but equally I think the DSC will suffer if they don't see you.

If you enter into anything regular, you're going to be faced with attempts to escalate it, which will not be good for the DSC either.

This. With bells on.

If you agree to a fixed schedule, you're doing something which is unusual and almost frames you as a third parent with custody rights/obligations... and you're not!

Do not enter into a fixed schedule, OP, even if you want to and agree to it, it's simply sending the wrong (very confusing) message to the step children, and giving an inch to an unreasonable bugger who will take a mile, and MORE!

You will be massively allowing him to set boundaries here, and you already know he's prone to pushing people into territory that is, frankly, bonkers.

OP, seriously, do not do this.

Even if you want it for DSC, you will regret it. Ad hoc contact is more than reasonable!

You're going to have years of school pickups, dinners to make, andhe's going to continue to think you have an obligation to fix his childcare responsibilities!!

I just feel so sad for those 2 SC, how sad for them that you can so easily shove them aside.

@AuntMargo

I just feel so sad for those 2 SC, how sad for them that you can so easily shove them aside.

don't be so ridiculous, if OP wasn't bothered at all I doubt she would of started this thread and would of strolled into the sunset without a backwards glance.

What do you think she should do? Take on custody of some kind and allow the father to continue being useless?

It's very easy to say all this nonsense when it isn't your life isn't it but not to offer a solution of what you would personally do in these circumstances.

Ad-hoc all the way. Otherwise he will take advantage and you will be doing regular evenings, and then it's will be 'its late why don't they stay' and 'can you pick them up from school'. They are 9 and 12, they already know their dad takes the easy way out and avoids parenting his children.

Why not make a hybrid of scheduled/and hoc to suit yourself, OP?

You could say to the DSC, "I'll invite you over for tea every other Wednesday, shall I, and we'll see how it goes?" And that way they have to wait for an invitation each week - which you can make sure is issued reliably - but the instant the feckless parents start pushing for more or trying to change the day to suit their own commitments, you know are the one in control and can issue the invitation worded to be sure it works for you and the DSC, not the parents.

The danger is being taken for granted as free childminding and if you are issuing the invitation each time, it is harder for them to do this.

That way, the children feel valued and welcomed and can rely on the contact, but their parents are kept on their best behaviour because they know you can simply withdraw the invitations at any time.

If the DSC take up a new after school sport or something and the parents want to rearrange, you could just say you'll talk to the children directly and get their wishes straight from them. They are old enough to say what they want and young enough to be frank about what's going on if they are being manipulated. Children that age are great at telling it like it is and rubbish at saying what adults are priming them to say. 😉

Oh, and I would recommend never, ever being the one to "Just pick them up from school/hockey practice and drop them back to me later." They get delivered to your door and collected from it. Not negotiable.