Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

How sad for the kids that their OWN FATHER can 'so easily shove them aside'.

It seems crazy to me that the OP has been forced into doing so much on a practical basis to the extent she wants to leave the marriage and people are telling her she is mean to not continue it after the marriage has ended for that EXACT reason.

OP - thing is he sounds to me very much like the type who will just find yet another woman to pick up his slack with the kids. It’s awful for them but what are you supposed to do? Continue to be the one who steps up for them for the next decade or more?

Fuck that. OP set boundaries now.

Your ex can facilitate contact if he so wishes, by impeding on his own down time, or he can pay someone else for childcare which can include driving them to yours. Don’t facilitate a shit situation you’re trying to get out of. He’ll want nothing more to do with you caring for the sc once he finds another woman to partner up with and have her care for them so keep that in mind it happens all too often.

@nonsenceagain

How sad for the kids that their OWN FATHER can 'so easily shove them aside'.

Yes. But OP isn't justified in doing it too just because he has already, is she? Two wrongs and all that. Think of it from the kids point of view.

Another thing to remember, your own DC won't thank you in the future for dumping their siblings.

If we think about what is in the DC's best interests then you could argue that him stepping up and doing everything for the DSC is the best solution. Like any other single parent. All lifts/ schools run / activities fall on the one person. And it should totally be him doing this, they are his children. If you offer or schedule a regular dinner then despite it being nice for the kids it already gives him the 'night off' or whatever.
If your joint DC sees him (and the sibs) EOW then I would just start with that. He really needs to stand on his own two feet and that means 24/7 to start with.
Harsh as it may seem on the DSC, they really need him to step up. The more he does the better he'll get at it. In your shoes I would make a special effort/ exception for birthdays and Christmas and also Father's Day. As in you help the DSC sort something out along with your joint DC.
You don't have to be mean about it, you can be fond or love them without being responsible for them. This is the main reason why you are separating - him offloading the responsibility for his DC on you.

I'm a step mum and I do lots for my DSS and love him very much but ultimately DH is the parent and he does take responsibility so there is no resentment for me. I can understand how difficult it must be for you to get to this point. Stand your ground on this.

OP I would focus on your time with the children being 'quality time' - and by that I'd suggest a general commitment to see them regularly (eg approx once a week or every other week) but NOT a committed schedule, and for an activity rather than having them round at the house. I'd also suggest that over time you'd want the frequency to reduce as they and you and your DC adjust to the change.
If they're 9 and 12, you don't want your time with them to be you doing housework while they are on screens, and you don't want to be accidentally falling into a childcare scenario. Is there anything in particular that you used to do with them that they liked and you can carry on? Shopping trips, getting nails done, going for walks, swimming etc? A short period interacting will be worth more to the kids then spending time at your house.
I don't mean that your house should be somewhere they never go, but I do think it'd be confusing if it became a second/third home given that they've got a mum, even if she's not very involved. Bear in mind that part could change as well, especially as they get older/more independent

@JudgeJerry

Can I ask the PPs who think I'm mean, what they'd have me do? Genuinely I want to hear everyone's opinions.

I don't think you're mean - as such. I can see why you feel the way you do.

But the youngest has had you in their life since 2yo and lived with you almost half their life.

I honestly don't think never seeing you again will be good for them but I also think you'd miss them.

There's no way I'd be going for EOW and a midweek type contact.

But I'd look at every other Friday night and then dropping all 3 to their fathers for the weekend so essentially your shared D.C. does EOW.

Then perhaps alternate weekend your dc stays at dads Friday night.

Perhaps then a midweek for your D.C. to dads each week for just tea or overnight.

Then maybe school holidays you could take all 3 out together for a day (so every 6-7 weeks or so).

But also think about birthdays and Christmas. Are you just going to stop buying these kids presents?

As much as clearly their dad is an arse and you need to leave him I'm uncomfortable with someone taking on children and then leaving them completely because of their parents behaviour.

Considering I've spent the majority of the thread @Qwerty789 discussing what contact to have and when, what is it you actually think I should do? Continue to fully parent my DSC once I've divorced their Dad?

Tell him you will keep in touch with them, still be there for them and make sure they get to see your DC.
However you will not be his unpaid nanny any longer.

Another thing to remember, your own DC won't thank you in the future for dumping their siblings. She's not dumping them. She is restoring what should have been in the first place, their dad should have been looking after them instead of making her do it.

@JudgeJerry Honestly at most I would agree to one meeting a month with the DSC, outside of your home, so a meeting in the park or lunch out. I would not agree to anything in the home for the simple reason that he seems the type to drop them off for their tea at 9.30 in the morning and collect them the next day because it was "easier:, he seems the type to always be angling to more, more school runs, more sleepovers, more care for his convenience. I would not agree to weekend meetings either as that will turn into you having them all weekend, every weekend. I have seen his type in action before, nothing is ever enough for them.

OP do what suits you 🌸

I agree that once a week or once a fortnight sounds fine and he should drop off and collect. I think it's better to fix the day then the kids know where they are, even if this is a pain for you. Also, if you fix the day and he then says can you do Tuesday instead, you can say that x is the arranged day.

What has your ex suggested should be his contact arrangement with your joint child, @JudgeJerry?

@Disfordarkchocolate

Ad-hoc all the way. Otherwise he will take advantage and you will be doing regular evenings, and then it's will be 'its late why don't they stay' and 'can you pick them up from school'. They are 9 and 12, they already know their dad takes the easy way out and avoids parenting his children.

I would say the opposite to start with - set up a specific schedule that suits suits OP and then stick to it. That way the children have consistency and stability and the OP is in control of the schedule. An adhoc arrangement is more likely to be taken advantage of as the STBXP as he will try to set it to fit his childcare needs rather than the OP just having the kids as a social visit, not to mention adhoc arrangements are more unsettling for the DSC who will already be going through a big upheaval.

Make the conditions clear at the beginning (X day from Y to Z time, with it clear who is responsible for pick up/drop off etc) and make it clear that any deviations (late pick ups, last minute requests for extra time, last minute changes to who does drop.offs etc) outside of an emergency would mean that the arrangement comes to an end.

It is easier to start with strict boundaries and loosen them over time, eg start off with dinner after school on Friday EOW and then make it more an adhoc dinner arrangement as the kids get older and have different commitments etc.

I'd speak to your DSC and frame contact with them as something that you'd like to do with them by choice not because you have to so there won't be a fixed routine in place.

I'd also make it clear to the Ex that you will available for emergency help rather than the children being left with any reasonable adult who can step in...but emergencies should be of the 999 variety (i.e. hospital/car accident) rather than the "I'm running late/I'm crap at life planning" variety.

So when it works for you on contact days with your child, invite them over too for dinner/day out/sleep over...nothing routine, but enough that you feel you have a balance of staying in their lives without being responsible for their ongoing care.

I don't envy you trying to work out this balance because whilst they are blameless in how crappy their dad is at parenting, doing anything more than ad hoc just allows their dad to continue being crap at parenting...except you can't really say that to them - that's something they'll see as time goes on.

The siblings relationship will be fine, they’ll all be seeing eachother regularly when OP’s DC has contact with his father.

@lannistunut

Maybe one overnight a week would be nice for all the kids though? Then just leave him to it the rest of the time.

What you absolutely do NOT want by the sound of it is for him to be able to ask you for favours e.g. school runs etc?

@lannistunut. - why earth would the OP, who has no parental relationship with these DC have them overnight once per week? Is it because as a woman she should "be kind" and help the poor man??? The man who has now fathered 3 children and parented none?

Good question, Behave!

Also OP I am presuming you have your own life too? Hobbies? Work? Friends/family?

I am also assuming you have only had one child with him because he is crap. I am not sure why others on here expect you to give up your own life to continue doing his childcare. It really is mind boggling, when this is one of the main reasons you no longer want to be with him.

eg start off with dinner after school on Friday EOW

I wouldn’t get into doing anything after school-I’m betting that you will pretty soon become responsible for the school run that day!

I might do regular contact as in 1st of the month 5pm-7.30pm for dinner if they are dropped/collected from yours at those times. That could be any day of the week and doesn’t involve school runs. I would also say that if he breaks those rules and tries to push it, the arrangement won’t happen again.

I think your suggestion of ad hoc dinner is fine....school will be starting back soon and you don't want to get caught in the organisation of stuff..
If he gets 1 night and eow..of your joint dc then take it from there....in 6 months time...its always easier to add than take away...If he wasn't such a lazy f you could have said xyz for 3 month's.....but he'll depend on it and make you look bad for pulling out....so definitely wait till he has is changes/organisation sorted with no dependance on you....its his lack of parenting you need to break from.

@Clymene

Don't do the eating together thing. It's a terrible idea and they'll all be hoping it means you'll get back together

Completely agree.

I do think you need to separate the two things out: how you block your selfish ex from manipulating you into providing him with childcare services (and it sounds as if he will fight like hell to ensure they continue until he finds a replacement mug to pick it up) is one thing.

A completely separate thing is how you minimise the harm to the stepchildren of losing their primary carer from their lives so abruptly. I think you can do that while making it crystal clear that it's for their benefit, will be limited to the times you offer, and that no more will happen outside that very strictly demarcated time.

The thing about ad hoc - surely it's not just worse for the kids, in being unreliable, but allows far more room for him to keep pushing the boundaries?

You can be clear that you'll see them on a set timetable BUT with the understanding that some weeks it won't work for you - work, your child's own timetable, holidays away - and that as it's for the children's benefit and not his, you won't 'make up' those times, they'll just be missed. You can stress that you're not about to provide childcare, just reassure the kids that you've not vanished.

My heart goes out to them. Their mum sounds flaky and their father sounds selfishly disinterested in them, too. So many people desperate for kids, and this pair had three and can't be bothered to look after them. I know it's NOT your responsibility... but I also think you can avoid inflicting additional harm to that their parents seem likely to cause, without huge disruption to you. I think you can lessen contact as time goes on, and I also think a strict timetable to ease them through the transition will help them, and lay boundaries for you.

If you don't want to do that I wouldn't touch ad hoc with a bargepole. He's far more likely to apply pressure, not turn up when he said he would, manufacture 'emergencies' if there are no guide ropes in place over the times and dates, and it would confuse and muddle the kids. I honestly think no contact other than handovers and eg your child's birthday parties would be better.

@Howshouldibehave

What has your ex suggested should be his contact arrangement with your joint child, *@JudgeJerry*?

We haven't come up with anything formal yet but he is in agreement that the majority should be with me. It will likely be EOW style but with a couple of evenings a week for tea after nursery with me collecting after work. But we haven't agreed anything completely yet.

A bit at people who think OP is being mean, but it's fine for their own father to totally shirk his own responsibilities towards them!

YADNBU. What would be wrong is to raise any hopes in the DSCs, and then not to fulfil any promises. Do not allow an schedule to be imposed on you, that you don't want and will inevitably begin to deeply resent over time.