Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

@Greygreenblue

I have read all the OPs responses, if not the entire thread. It seems to me OP is not interested in any one suggesting she do more than an adhoc dinner or dinner on alternate weeks. So I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

Personally I don’t think the relationship with the ex is what should be driving the decision. I get it, you don’t like him, you don’t want to help him and you feel used by him. But this isn’t about him it’s about the kids.

You say you didn’t choose to take on the mother role but you did, you didn’t have to stay and do that for 4 years. Also they are your child’s siblings. So, ignoring what you perceive as your ex taking advantage of you, what is best for the 3 children involved?

Also the eldest is 12 - has anyone actually asked them what they think?

The OP didn't mother her stepchildren, she was forced into the role of main carer because her husband, the father of the children is a workaholic who gave up taking responsibility for the children he created. An issue that has ended the marriage to the OP. A short marriage btw.

I wonder how many people saying "think of the children" know what legally this means. The OP have absolutely NO RIGHT where her step-children are concerned. She was protected while she was married to the father of the children but from the moment she gets a divorce that protection disappears. Zilch, zero, nada. Only two people have the guardianship, the father and the mother. She is not even a fucking nanny with a contract to protect her for crying out loud.

The one with the responsibilities are the legal guardians and parents of those children. That's it. It's up to the father to step up, be a father to all his children and make sure they keep in contact so they can be brothers and sisters. But hey, the father is too busy working and the divorced step mother should take responsibility for all of them according to some in Mumsnet.

It's beyond ridiculous. It's pathetic to yet again lay the responsibility on a woman who has legally no right to those children.

It sounds as though you are at the beginning of your discussions with your stbx about how this is going to work. You haven't mentioned the financial side in your posts, I don't think, and no reason why you should have done, but it's obvious that your stbx will secure the services of a nanny when you split. If he works extremely long hours, he must be earning a good deal of money. If he isn't, then this is a major issue, and if you haven't been able to get him to see sense, during your marriage, about giving all his time for very little renumeration, then, it's clear he isn't listening at all, and that's why the pp advice about seeing a lawyer soon, is valuable.

As he will surely be using a nanny, and can obviously afford one, I can't see why he would be relying on you for childcare. He won't need to ask you to do school runs. How could you pick up his children from school, and drop them, if you work full-time? I don't really see how you did the school runs before, around your work, and how you cared for a small child, during lockdown, and worked from home. It must have been very difficult, unless your job is very flexible and you work the hours you choose - for instance self-employed work.

As he will have a nanny, and won't need childcare, I don't think you have to worry about him foisting duties on you. I'd say, think of an arrangement which suits all the children and don't be thinking 'if I give an inch, he'll want a foot'.

I do think you need to think about your situation in the round and how it's going to work. You haven't posted about finances, but think about how you are going to afford a home, after you and stbx sell the house, and how you'll manage childcare for your child, when you are working. It's not wrong what other posters have said, that, apart from the emotional benefits of strong loving relationships all round, you might appreciate the fact that your child has older siblings who can entertain them and supervise a little. I don't think continued contact with your DSC is a negative in any practical sense, as well as in the emotional sense.

@QueenHofScotland

It is not about taking on the children full time or assuming some sort of responsibility for them. It’s about recognising the impact of the separation on them and considering if there is a way forward that will help the children feel less rejected.

The OP can put in place clear boundaries that send a clear message to her ex that this isn’t childcare for him, but for the children.

Over time it’s likely that any contact will decrease anyway as everyone naturally moves on. The adults in these situations have often thought and planned out the separations for months before they happen. Children get told when it’s happening and are expected to go with the flow a lot of the time

That's a really good post.

I feel hugely for the OP here. I definitely don't think she is BU.

But I keep coming back to young (small 😀) DC with no agency, and how they can be supported. I think of the impact of this affecting them into adulthood.

It's not the OP's fault. It's technically not her responsibility but I do think, given her obligation to date, she should endeavour to see them more than the odd meal each fortnight. I think ensuring there's regular contact where they can interact with their sibling - so maybe a full day & overnight - would be positive

I accept that's asking a lot of OP, and recognise it's hard. But I do think the children need to come first.

People really think, that having had to get used to their parents’ split, children should just have to accept being separated from each other because the parents don’t want to see them again?

Err, yes. It's not like they won't see each other at all - they will have EOW at their dad's plus a day a week at his as well. What's the alternative? The OP doesn't have parental responsibility for the step kids and her ex certainly isn't going to take his for longer

He needs to look after his own DC, with no involvement from you. You might as well stay married if you were up for looking after his DC by yourself!

I also think that posters are infantalising the kids here - at 9 and 12 they know who their parents are. They will of course be sad about things changing but they aren't stupid, they will know that they stay with their parent not their former step mother

None of this is the OP's problemZ of children feel this way it's because they have a shit dad and it's very much his problem to undo the bad parenting he's inflicted on his kids

Totally true, but again, this brings it back to the adults.

The children have no power here, and need to be thought of above adult needs and wants.

Unfortunately that affects OP as well as their shit dad, but I do think it's wrong to just leave the kids to deal with the fallout with no concern for how it will impact them.

I think ensuring there's regular contact where they can interact with their sibling - so maybe a full day & overnight - would be positive

But they will get that at their dad's?

I too would be interested in what the people saying you are selfish think you should do.

Do they expect you to have the SC the same amount as you have your own child? If so are both the step children's parents going to pay you maintenance?

I also don't understand how people can't see that the failure lies with their dad, firstly when they came to live with him he should have stepped up, he didn't. If he had done so you wouldn't be writing this thread.

Their dad should've been a better parent then and this whole mess would be avoided.

Yes he should have been.

But he wasn't. And neither was their mum.

The OP has been in their lives from a very young age. And in a parental role from ages 5 & 8.

This is an unusual situation due to their mum not being involved. That's why it's different to other break ups that involve SC.

I think the decisions should be made on the reality of the situation & not 'should', but also recognising OP's own wishes & how sustainable it is, moving ahead.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

I also wonder how many people think when a couple split that the stepdad should still do school runs, sleepovers m and insist 'he love the little children he fathered for 4 years' (boak)

I would think this too, in a situation where there was no contact with the biological dad, and he had occupied a parental role. If he'd been the key figure, while the DM worked insane hours & wasn't engaged, I'd think it even more.

Again, for the well-being of the DC, while recognising it's very hard for the person in that situation.

Hey, if kids were going to be traumatised every time they leave a familiar environment why leave childcare to go to school? Why changing schools are all? Why moving houses?

Children cope with changes, which btw is fucking fact of life, because the love and care they receive from mom and dad primarily. It's not a responsibility for step parents, specially in this instance where the marriage has been short and the step children have never seen the OP as a "mother".

Some common sense.

You have absolutely no moral or legal obligation towards the step-children. It is sad that they have a useless father but you are not social services. See them if you want and when you want but don’t get roped in to any arrangement. As soon as your ex as a new woman on the scene, this will no longer be an issue anyway. He will have no consideration for you, he wants this so he can get out of childcare, not because of the wellbeing of the kids.

It's great saying 'think what's best for the children' but please, tell me what you think that is?

I think people have offered views on this?

My own is that you should seek legal advice, and work out a structured arrangement based on the custody arrangements with your DC. I would aim for meaningful time eg an overnight & full day on a regular basis.

That is admittedly through my own prism of wanting to safeguard the DC (all of them). I know that you are not sure this is something you want or can do. I recognise it's a really hard situation for you & you are not uncaring or selfish.

This is ridiculous! Why should SHE facilitate it?! They have a DAD who is quite capable of ensuring the relationship between siblings continues - at HIS house. It's his responsibility, not hers.

Yes, it's his responsibility. But he's not doing it. That is awful & reprehensible.

But it's not the kids' fault.

It's not the OP's either. But I keep thinking of what's best for all 3 DC.

It's great saying 'think what's best for the children' but please, tell me what you think that is?

They are best off with their dad stepping up. If you continue to help, he will continue to try and leave it all to you and I don't think that's best for them. So I think they are best off if you step back for a while but do the occasional fun dinner or outing.

The starting point, I think, needs to be considering what parental rights OP actually has after the divorce over the children of her stbxh and his previous ex. And the answer is clear: none.

If she took him to a family court seeking residence or even contact, I think it's highly unlikely she would be granted anything. It would be left to their DF's goodwill and the older child's wishes.

No rights means no obligations. It's really that simple.

Of course the stbxh has grown used to acres of free childcare and wife-work from OP, but once she isn't his DW, that simply turns off like a tap. I think he is beginning to contemplate the consequences of his actions and not enjoying the prospect, but that's his problem.

Anything OP does or offers will be from the sheer goodness of her heart, which seems pretty deep. But I keep harping that it must never be seen as a duty or a given or be taken for granted or become an expectation or worse, an obligation.

When she invites the children over, they need to know they are valued and welcomed; invited by their former DSM, not dumped by their DF.

I'm honestly astounded that people think OP has more responsibility over the step children, and is somehow more accountable for their feelings, than their own father.

You come across as being very cold OP.

I don't agree with this at all.

I think OP is genuinely trying to grapple with a really difficult situation and work out what is best for the DC, while trying to work out a way ahead for herself. She has been treated dreadfully by her H.

It's very unfair to call her cold. I think it's the opposite. It's a really tough situation.

@EarringsandLipstick He's not doing it because he hasn't had to! The OP has always done it.

Now it's his time to step up.

@Greygreenblue

I have read all the OPs responses, if not the entire thread. It seems to me OP is not interested in any one suggesting she do more than an adhoc dinner or dinner on alternate weeks. So I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

Personally I don’t think the relationship with the ex is what should be driving the decision. I get it, you don’t like him, you don’t want to help him and you feel used by him. But this isn’t about him it’s about the kids.

You say you didn’t choose to take on the mother role but you did, you didn’t have to stay and do that for 4 years. Also they are your child’s siblings. So, ignoring what you perceive as your ex taking advantage of you, what is best for the 3 children involved?

Also the eldest is 12 - has anyone actually asked them what they think?

I’m surprised that you haven’t said a word about what you expect the FATHER to do.

I mean surely he is the one responsible for those children. He is the one who works stupid hours and expected someone to pick up the slack. He is the one who refuse the listen the impact his attitude had.

Maybe it’s never scary to start putting the responsibility at the feet of the right person. It’s not the fault of the OP is she was in charge of those children all the time. It’s the fault of their FATHER who wasn’t bothered to actually be there for them. It’s not the fault of the Op is they don’t see the person who basically has been their primary care giver for 4 years anymore. It’s the fault of the FATHER who didn’t bother to actually take on their role as primary care giver.
If that guy had actually stepped up into his role as a father and primary care giver, he would have been there and the gap between ‘together vs separated’ would never have been as great as it will be. (He might also not actually have got divorced either…).
This guy has never out his dcs first. Why do we expect random women to do so for him?

@AlternativePerspective

For those saying “make a clean break,” think. About it like this.

Imagine you’re splitting from your partner and one of your children is going to stay living with you and the others are going to live with your ex.

Now imagine saying to your resident child “sorry, you can’t live with your brother/sister any more, but you can see them when you see daddy. No, I won’t ever see them again.”

And then saying to the other children, “you don’t live here any more, and you can’t ever see your sister except when she comes to stay with daddy. No. You won’t be coming here again.”

Now, posters here will argue that it’s different because they’re not all the OP’s children. But for the children it isn’t different.

All they will know is that they’re being split up as a sibling group, and that suddenly the adults are telling them they can’t see each other again apart from when the adults say so.

The children aren’t going to see it from the perspective of being half siblings, especially the youngest who has never known any different than these children being her siblings.

Bearing in mind they’ve lived together full-time. This isn’t an arrangement where they’re used to their half siblings coming to stay every other weekend or whenever. They’re a full sibling group in every sense of the word apart from biology, which to young children is meaningless.

People really think, that having had to get used to their parents’ split, children should just have to accept being separated from each other because the parents don’t want to see them again?

That's very well put, in terms of seeing the DC perspective.

And I feel that's been lost in a lot of posts.

@MattyGroves

I think ensuring there's regular contact where they can interact with their sibling - so maybe a full day & overnight - would be positive

But they will get that at their dad's?

Yes I meant in addition to that.

@EarringsandLipstick

This is ridiculous! Why should SHE facilitate it?! They have a DAD who is quite capable of ensuring the relationship between siblings continues - at HIS house. It's his responsibility, not hers.

Yes, it's his responsibility. But he's not doing it. That is awful & reprehensible.

But it's not the kids' fault.

It's not the OP's either. But I keep thinking of what's best for all 3 DC.

The best thing for all 3 DC is the father stepping up. But he's not going to do if his x-wife keeps enabling him to be a workaholic taking no responsibility for the children he has created.

There was a post not long ago about the father's g/f taking the OP's daughter to have her ears pierced. Majority of posts were "how dare she". But yet here, some are saying the father's ex-wife should be responsible for her step-children well being without legal protection at all. After a 4 year marriage.

The hypocrisy is outstanding.

@MattyGroves

It's great saying 'think what's best for the children' but please, tell me what you think that is?

They are best off with their dad stepping up. If you continue to help, he will continue to try and leave it all to you and I don't think that's best for them. So I think they are best off if you step back for a while but do the occasional fun dinner or outing.

YY!!

Much too easy to say ‘oh poor him’ once again and let him off the hook.

Strange how society always expects women, regardless of their link with said children, to step up and ‘think off the children, their emotional well-being etc…’ but never ever expects fathers to do so.

What the OP is talking about is the complexity associated with blended families when those fall apart. The reality is that step mothers and stepfather have no right after separation. And they have no responsibility either.
It can be crap for the dcs esp when they are young, which is why parents should think carefully before ‘starting again’. But we can’t make women responsible for picking up the pieces for every crap father.