Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

If you are having any contact, think: would fun lazy ten years younger uncle do this? Babysitting - sure if theyre free and feel like it, both mostly untrue. School pick up: shock! Outside my sphere! Why would you even ask? Over for tea - why not how about Thursday week. Picking them up from school for tea - nah too hard. Buying them clothes - huh? Why me? Oh ok heres a tie dye tshirt.

@ApplyWithin

How does your child feel about being taken away from their siblings?

What a mess. May this thread be a warning to people not to set up home with partners who have children, let alone bringing new siblings into the family, unless they are sure they’re in it for the long haul. It’s just not fair on the children.

I highly doubt the OP got married and raised 2 children who aren't hers with an explicit plan for it all to go tits up.

What a spectacularly unhelpful comment

@DancingQueen85

You have no obligation to have any contact with them of course but personally I think it's terribly sad that these kids will have no regular contact with there main caregiver moving forward. I know your position I wouldn't commit to any tint formally but I'd be aiming to see them far more frequently than what you have suggested. Poor kids, first their mum abandons them and now this

Their dad should've been a better parent then and this whole mess would be avoided.

I can't believe people are actually reaching the conclusion that it's STILL not the ex's problem or fault and that he should be the one to care for his own kids

Ignore people calling you mean and selfish. You're the opposite. No no no to school runs or regular contact time. Let him facilitate your dc seeing their half siblings. You have been taken advantage of. The offer of irregular teatime meetings is more than generous.

I think there is a slight misunderstanding. They were 5 & 8 when they moved in with us. That was 4 years ago, they are now 9 & 12.

I think this is the whole point. They don’t call you mum. They don’t look at you as mum. And I’m not belittling your contribution, because I realize you probably contributed quite a bit during that period, but four years is short. I have friends whose parents dated people, perhaps moved in for a while, during four years and then broke up, so there was none of this discussion over visits afterwards. It’s a relatively short period in their lives; not a stepmum they’ve had since infancy and they’re now 12. So I really don’t think a clean break is being unreasonable. And as your child is younger than 4, I imagine there will be a short period of adjustment, and then they won’t care one way or the other.

I also think you’re kidding yourself if you think STBXH would give you any consideration if he had another partner who didn’t want you to have contact, and she was doing all the wife work and school runs and childcare for him; it sounds like he only needs you right now and he would cut you off in a heartbeat and just let her get on with it, if possible. And if you agreed to care for your SC now, it very well could happen, as you have no PR.

I suspect that you are right that he is seeking free child care. I would certainly not commit to a scheduled visitation with children who are no longer in any way your legal responsibility. I might, however, OCCASIONALLY plan an outing that includes them, although not on a regular basis.

"Yes I do love them, in our own way."

This was your response when you were asked if you loved them.

I find this remark absolutely devastating. It seems so unloving. In 34 comments you have not said that you love the little children you have mothered for 4 years. I cannot fathom that. You presumably are centre of their world, have you fed, dressed and cared for them when sick, comforted them when they cried, snuggled in bed with them when they woke at night and not one mention of love.

Those poor unfortunate kids. Abandoned by their mother, feckless father (according to you) and now you're asking about how firm arrangements should be to allow them to "have tea" with you weekly/fortnightly. They have been let down by everyone. . I appreciate you were young, 24 and not ready to play step mummy but you should have done them a favour and not "acted" as mum begrudingly for 4 years

But why should the OP love them? You cannot force that feeling. And more importantly - why should she continue to play mum to them when their actual dad isn't even going to attempt to be any semblance of a father.

OP ignore the bleeding heart guilt trippers, who probably have a lovely nuclear family where the thought of stepchildren will only ever be a rosy abstract one. You have given VERY valid reasons for why you want a clean slate and you deserve it. If the step children are affected then I'm afraid it's time for their dad to step up and support them through this transition. It's not your job just because he can't be arsed. Unfortunately, all children are always affected by splits, it's a downside but with decent support they'll all get through it and come out alive the other end.

@ZenNudist

Ignore people calling you mean and selfish. You're the opposite. No no no to school runs or regular contact time. Let him facilitate your dc seeing their half siblings. You have been taken advantage of. The offer of irregular teatime meetings is more than generous.

This in spates

I also wonder how many people think when a couple split that the stepdad should still do school runs, sleepovers m and insist 'he love the little children he fathered for 4 years' (boak)

I can't see how people are making you out to be the bad guy here!
Why is no one putting the blame onto the children's dad? He had the opportunity to change his behaviour so this split didn't happen, plenty of time by the sound of it, but he didn't. Probably because he never thought you would actually break up with him! I think your offer of tea now and again is fine, like you said they will see each other at his house.
No one is slagging off their mother for not loving them and wanting to see them and she's the one who gave birth to them!

I have read all the OPs responses, if not the entire thread. It seems to me OP is not interested in any one suggesting she do more than an adhoc dinner or dinner on alternate weeks. So I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

Personally I don’t think the relationship with the ex is what should be driving the decision. I get it, you don’t like him, you don’t want to help him and you feel used by him. But this isn’t about him it’s about the kids.

You say you didn’t choose to take on the mother role but you did, you didn’t have to stay and do that for 4 years. Also they are your child’s siblings. So, ignoring what you perceive as your ex taking advantage of you, what is best for the 3 children involved?

Also the eldest is 12 - has anyone actually asked them what they think?

@JudgeJerry - Honestly I think some people think you should just give up your whole life as a "Mummy martyr" to these children.

They did not live with your H when you moved in, or when you got married. They were moved in after that. So all these good people saying "you knew what you were taking on" - nah. You didn't. Fuck that for the pile of shite it is.

There are women out there who would never have taken on the role that you did - who would have left the kids to fend for themselves, despite being the only woman in the house. You didn't do that - you cared for them and made sure they were ok, and their father let you because it suited him to have nothing to do with them.

Now you're done.
You're not trying to cut them off dead - you're trying to make sure you don't get taken advantage off going forward, which, given past history, is pretty bloody likely.

There is one aspect that concerns me slightly - and that's the 12yo might be viewed as old enough to step into your shoes, especially if they're female, but also if they're male. Which means that they'll end up doing all that you were doing while you were there. Do you think that's likely? I feel your H might just go looking for another wife to caretake his kids instead, but he might not either, given how busy he is with work

And lastly, have you asked the kids at all what their feelings are? Not trying to put anything on them, just let them know what's happening and how they feel about it?

I’m sad for the children but they aren’t your kids and unfortunately it’s bad enough that they’re mum can’t/won’t do more but their dad should be stepping up. I would refuse any scheduled contact and agree to see them as and when you want to on your terms. He will no doubt have a new partner within 1/2 years who will replace you anyway as their main mother figure and it’s not your place to navigate that until he finds someone.

Probably best if you buy a 4 bed house so each of the kids can have their own room when they come to stay, if you make DSC share they may feel unwelcome. Most dads get alternate EOW and one weeknight per week, could he manage that do you think or maybe his work is too time consuming for that? Maybe he could just take them on the odd weekend if he's free? [Sarcasm]

If you can swing it I think once a week dinner and games at your house would be nice. I agree with others that ad hoc just opens the door to more negotiating and wheedling from your ex.

@JudgeJerry

We haven't worked out exactly what that will be yet but it will be majority time with me which he isn't arguing with.

Of course he's not arguing about this, as you'll still be providing the majority of childcare. He just wants you to continue doing the same as you currently are for his children so that, as now, he is largely unaffected.

As another PP said, don't box yourself into an arrangement which is still going to cause you problems when you physically separate. That's what you're trying to get away from.

Any contact with his children/your DSC needs to be on your terms and he needs to step up and take responsibility for his children (all of them) himself.

I also agree with what @NewlyGranny says in her posts.

Be careful not to allow yourself to be emotionally blackmailed either here, by your husband or anyone else, into doing more than you really want to do, and ensure that your boundaries against his laziness and entitlement are strong from the beginning because you already know he'll push as hard as he can to get things his way.

Why is the OP getting all the grief while their mother , who has chosen not to have regular contact, is handed a free pass?

Also this ^

Stay strong OP and plan your future more to suit you and your child. 🌹

OP - you sound like a decent person who is trying to do her best in a bad situation. I totally agree that you need to set strong boundaries. Dinner with the DC every fortnight sounds fair. He should definitely collect them from school and drop them off at yours. I would recommend you drop them back at his after dinner. This is to mitigate against him being “busy” and asking you to keep them for a night. You sound like you are trying really hard to be fair to them, as well as setting your own boundaries - which you definitely need.

I’m astonished at how many posters have vilified you, given all that you have done for these two children, and given how hard you are trying to find a decent and fair way forward. Many posters saying that the dad is useless - agreed. But many criticising you without any reference to their actual mother, who refuses to parent. There is a difference between caring and responsibility. You care about the DSC, that much is obvious - but they are really not your responsibility. You can spend time with them and cook them dinner sometimes, sure, but these kids have both a mother and a father who need to step up to their responsibilities and start parenting their own children.

@Greygreenblue

I have read all the OPs responses, if not the entire thread. It seems to me OP is not interested in any one suggesting she do more than an adhoc dinner or dinner on alternate weeks. So I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

Personally I don’t think the relationship with the ex is what should be driving the decision. I get it, you don’t like him, you don’t want to help him and you feel used by him. But this isn’t about him it’s about the kids.

You say you didn’t choose to take on the mother role but you did, you didn’t have to stay and do that for 4 years. Also they are your child’s siblings. So, ignoring what you perceive as your ex taking advantage of you, what is best for the 3 children involved?

Also the eldest is 12 - has anyone actually asked them what they think?

Then you'll see that I have asked poster's who think I'm terribly awful and selfish what they suggest I do, and surprise they haven't answered!

I imagine in the short term what would be best for the children is for me to stay, me to carry on being his slave basically and doing everything for everyone. Until my mental health is shattered and then it's obviously not going to be great for anyone.

Again, I ask... What is it you think I should do? Have them move in with me? Continue doing all of their parenting post divorce? See them for overnights multiple times a week? What? It's great saying 'think what's best for the children' but please, tell me what you think that is?

And I get it, people think I should have up and left 4 years ago at the very start, newly married with a newborn. I naively thought we could work on things and that he may change, have counselling and so on. Unfortunately he did/would not. That's on him, not me. He allowed us to get to this point by refusing to engage in any attempts by me to rectify this.

Wow I've just come to this thread. I'm so sorry, OP, for the dilemma you face, and for all the DC here.

In terms of your moral responsibility - I personally would feel your DC and the DSC should have a stable, solid, timetabled amount of respected, promoted, happy time together each week. For some reason, having to go home somewhere else to sleep is upsetting for children. My DC used to be inconsolable when DSC went home around bedtime (we used to have them once a week after school for supper). The DSC were ok because there were two of them so not left alone.

I would personally consider committing to a schedule which gave the three of them some set time together. They will not be little forever. As the grow up, the relationship and time spent together will change. But right now, breaking up the household in itself is going to be a gigantic shift, and very upsetting for all three. DSC may even feel/know that this is happening because you got fed up with looking after them all the time (which is the reality - whether you frame it that you were (rightly) hacked off with him, to them it boils down to you don't want to carry on being their put-upon surrogate mum).

You're leaving him because your life was appropriated and you want it back. So no wonder you don't want an arrangement.

You're not obliged to love his kids. But I'd feel obliged to consider the feelings of all three kids very carefully and with a generosity not restricted by being angry with him for dropping you in it. Separate the kids off from his failings.

Your DC will be devastated too if you drop the DSC like this. You have to facilitate continuing contact for all three DC, in my opinion.

It could look like:

Every Weds yes you pick them up from school. You have them for the night. You take them to school.

Every other weekend they come either for the day or sleep over. Maybe Sat night as that's the big one - cooking/eating/hanging out together.

They're in your DC's life. They all love each other and have lived together for four years. That's a really long time for kids.

I know you're getting out, but I do think it's too brutal to cut the kids (all three) off from each other almost entirely.

And yes that does require you to be a bit of an angel. But for waaaaaay less time than you have been. And on your terms. And not forever.

And presumably the older kids amuse and look after yours a bit? Not all bad?

I'm sorry OP but you are in this. This is your life and this is how it looks when your kid loves their half siblings and vice versa. Hopefully over time you'll come to really value and appreciate this love between them. And respect it. Yes you're the one letting it flower. But it doesn't have to feel like it's at your cost. A lot of parenting can feel like you're being put upon. But it helps to reframe it. The love between the kids is special for all of them. It's at the heart of their family and their childhood. It's kind of a privilege to be the parent at the heart of that too.

@jozipozi31

Wow I've just come to this thread. I'm so sorry, OP, for the dilemma you face, and for all the DC here.

In terms of your moral responsibility - I personally would feel your DC and the DSC should have a stable, solid, timetabled amount of respected, promoted, happy time together each week. For some reason, having to go home somewhere else to sleep is upsetting for children. My DC used to be inconsolable when DSC went home around bedtime (we used to have them once a week after school for supper). The DSC were ok because there were two of them so not left alone.

I would personally consider committing to a schedule which gave the three of them some set time together. They will not be little forever. As the grow up, the relationship and time spent together will change. But right now, breaking up the household in itself is going to be a gigantic shift, and very upsetting for all three. DSC may even feel/know that this is happening because you got fed up with looking after them all the time (which is the reality - whether you frame it that you were (rightly) hacked off with him, to them it boils down to you don't want to carry on being their put-upon surrogate mum).

You're leaving him because your life was appropriated and you want it back. So no wonder you don't want an arrangement.

You're not obliged to love his kids. But I'd feel obliged to consider the feelings of all three kids very carefully and with a generosity not restricted by being angry with him for dropping you in it. Separate the kids off from his failings.

Your DC will be devastated too if you drop the DSC like this. You have to facilitate continuing contact for all three DC, in my opinion.

It could look like:

Every Weds yes you pick them up from school. You have them for the night. You take them to school.

Every other weekend they come either for the day or sleep over. Maybe Sat night as that's the big one - cooking/eating/hanging out together.

They're in your DC's life. They all love each other and have lived together for four years. That's a really long time for kids.

I know you're getting out, but I do think it's too brutal to cut the kids (all three) off from each other almost entirely.

And yes that does require you to be a bit of an angel. But for waaaaaay less time than you have been. And on your terms. And not forever.

And presumably the older kids amuse and look after yours a bit? Not all bad?

I'm sorry OP but you are in this. This is your life and this is how it looks when your kid loves their half siblings and vice versa. Hopefully over time you'll come to really value and appreciate this love between them. And respect it. Yes you're the one letting it flower. But it doesn't have to feel like it's at your cost. A lot of parenting can feel like you're being put upon. But it helps to reframe it. The love between the kids is special for all of them. It's at the heart of their family and their childhood. It's kind of a privilege to be the parent at the heart of that too.

This is ridiculous! Why should SHE facilitate it?! They have a DAD who is quite capable of ensuring the relationship between siblings continues - at HIS house. It's his responsibility, not hers.

Having said all that, I'd forgotten about the time your DC stays with him!! So .......

I'd put the emphasis on your DC presumably having at least one night a week sleeping over with him?

Then it's up to you how you set the parameters for your home.

I'd still have them to sleep at least once a week at yours. For now. But that's me.

Stop using your anger at him as a reason for limiting contact schedules. He is a crap dad. We get that. This isn’t about that, it’s about trying to limit the harm on his kids.
Have them for dinner once a week and overnight (including school drop off) until Christmas. Tell him that you will decide by the start of December whether to continue that arrangement after Christmas or not, and that you will let him know. Nothing on top of this, and no variation to this agreement, or you will back out of any contact with his kids. End of.

@ButYouGottaHaveASkillJeff

'This is ridiculous! Why should SHE facilitate it?! They have a DAD who is quite capable of ensuring the relationship between siblings continues - at HIS house. It's his responsibility, not hers.'

Pipe down? Don't mock other people's genuine opinion? I didn't say it's her responsibility. Of course she can do what she chooses. I just said the relationship between the kids should be prioritised.