Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

I have what I suppose are exstepchildren. I love them dearly. I would have been gutted to lose them. Luckily they were generous with their time and I have a minor DC they would not have wanted to lose. They still come and stay with me. Nowadays they drive themselves. It's all nice. Think carefully OP.

@lannistunut. - why earth would the OP, who has no parental relationship with these DC have them overnight once per week? Is it because as a woman she should "be kind" and help the poor man??? The man who has now fathered 3 children and parented none?

No, I thought maybe it would be nice for the four of them to have time together, as she has spent a lot of time with them over four years, and some emotional connection has presumably been made, when that can be separated from (understandable) resentment towards the ex.

My whole point is this would not be done for the father/ex at all, but for the OP and for the siblings. The OP's child might like to see the DSCs with his own mum. It is going to be quite a change all round for the kids.

I guess now he will secure (formal and paid) full time childcare, probably try to press the dc's mother into helping out in the meantime, or a female relative, and get on the look-out for a new mother-cook-domestic. I feel bad for his older kids because it sounds like they are not going to get much in the way of active and involved parenting, but that is not your problem. They have two living parents. It's not your job.

And I think you trying to fill that role won't help in the long run. When he inevitably finds another woman "to provide a loving home" and knows you're no longer useful you will probably end up on a "contact in case of emergency" list and that's all.

Maybe once you have your own household established and things have calmed down, you will enjoy seeing your ex-DSC's on a semi regular basis. But don't agree to anything until you have de-stressed from the whole thing. And maybe not even then.

He can continue to happily absolve his parenting responsibility if he can get you to agree to a formal arrangement (and then push at the boundaries of it for as much as he can get). For all the people saying that you chose to be in a relationship with a man with children - he chose to have children. If this man continues to prioritize his career over everything else, it's not down to anyone else to sacrifice their time and wellbeing to facilitate it. But I bet there will be a new Mummy installed within months.

@Annasgirl

Hi OP,

Please ignore the martyrs on here - I think they spend their time trying to make other mums feel guilty.

You have NO responsibility to these children and as you have outlined, it was your DH's selfishness which has caused this divorce. You have finally seen the light, do not go back to being his default childcare.

I think you should have firm boundaries and have very limited (or no contact, if that suits you best) with the DSC. Otherwise he will keep pushing at your sense of duty and kindness until you are the full time carer of them again.

You might have been better served posting this on the Step Parents forum, as there are probably more realists on there (but I don't know, perhaps the guilt trippers hang out over there too.)

God this is so harsh. I think OP is in a very tough situation. She's clearly trying to figure out what's best for her, and DC/DSC

But your post ... no mention of 2 small children who are blameless in all this. Yes they've a shit dad. They also have a limited relationship with their DM.

Your post is all about punishing her ex. But no regard for the DC caught in the middle. I know OP has no responsibility for them. But 4 years of essentially being the main carer (given the update about her H working insane hours) can't be set aside easily, in terms of how the poor kids will feel.

It doesn't appear to me that the OP is wanting to switch off all connection between her & the DSC (both physical and emotional) however managing that in a way that doesn't cut the DSC adrift, gives reassurance to her own DC and crucially doesn't allow STBEXH to think he's continuing on his life of zero familial responsibility. Those three objectives may not be in perfect balance but my reading of the thread suggests she's trying her best to achieve a good outcome for all the children in the best way possible - both for short and long term. A swift(ish) transition to "favourite aunt" status seems to be the best bet

I would suggest spending time deciding what you would like. There is no right or wrong answer. I would suggest separating the contact with your stepchildren to your feelings about your ex getting off lighter. Make your decision based on how often you would like to see them balanced with the needs of all three children. I'd also consider how much time together they were getting when with their Dad and try to use my contact time to shorten the length of time apart between visits.

@EarringsandLipstick read the OPs update. she doesnt want to play the role of main caregiver. she is only 28 and has been putting up with this since she was 24 (!) she doesnt want to do it anymore.

its crap that there are children in the world who have shitty parents and if that could be changed I'm sure most of us would do it but OP should be allowed to move on without feeling guilty. she did far more than she should ever have been expected to in the last 4 years and it is time their father stepped up.

Think carefully OP.

She can think more carefully than any human being has ever thought before. It won't stop him cutting contact once he has the convenience of another on-site woman to cover everything.

Also let's be real, she doesn't sound like she will be gutted to lose them. She said she'd be fine with them seeing her DC at contact at their DF's house. She's had a full time job, has been caring for her own child and her DH's two older children with no assistance, doing all the household admin, cleaning, shopping, cooking, she's probably been running on empty for years and hasn't been able to forge proper bonds with them.

And again that's not her fault. She should be thanked for stepping up for them all this time, but clearly that thanks isn't going to come from anywhere.

no mention of 2 small children

The older one is 12.

[quote Candydreamer]@EarringsandLipstick read the OPs update. she doesnt want to play the role of main caregiver. she is only 28 and has been putting up with this since she was 24 (!) she doesnt want to do it anymore.

its crap that there are children in the world who have shitty parents and if that could be changed I'm sure most of us would do it but OP should be allowed to move on without feeling guilty. she did far more than she should ever have been expected to in the last 4 years and it is time their father stepped up.[/quote]
Candy I'd posted before I read OP's latest update (with her views and age).

But I think you're misrepresenting me. I totally get that OP is in a really tough place. I honestly don't know what I'd do, she's absolutely not wrong in not wanting to continue any kind of 'parental' role, or be treated as childcare by her awful ex.

I was responding to a PP who literally didn't consider the DSC at all, and was quick to say she had no responsibility to the children at all.

This is true.

But so harsh to the poor kids for whom she has been a parent figure, god, they were only 5 and 9 when it started (their living with OP & her H).

As utterly tough as it is, and OP's feelings must count, they are just small children (still) who have had OP in their lives in a significant way & it would be cruel not to consider them

I know there is no perfect solution. I also think OP is thoughtful, and caring & is trying to be honest about her needs and figure something out. It's really hard.

[quote Candydreamer]@EarringsandLipstick read the OPs update. she doesnt want to play the role of main caregiver. she is only 28 and has been putting up with this since she was 24 (!) she doesnt want to do it anymore.

its crap that there are children in the world who have shitty parents and if that could be changed I'm sure most of us would do it but OP should be allowed to move on without feeling guilty. she did far more than she should ever have been expected to in the last 4 years and it is time their father stepped up.[/quote]
Agreed, @Candydreamer. And not just that, but this whole childcare problem, or rather her husband's attitude to it, seems to be the reason for the OP wanting a divorce. She cannot be expected to carry on caring for her step-children as normal, it is up to their father to step up and carry the load of what he clearly considers is "wife-work". As others have said, there will soon be another woman in his life who he will oblige to take over the parental role he isn't interested in. I am sorry for the children in this, but I really believe it should not be on the OP's conscience that she is not doing the right thing by them when it is actually up to their own parents to do the right thing by them, not her, however good a relationship she has with them. From her description, from their point of view, I see her more like an au-pair who is married to their father. Au-pairs move on. So is the OP.

What exactly is your ex asking you to do? Go over to his house and look after his kids? Have all the kids at yours?

@Greystray

no mention of 2 small children

The older one is 12.

That's not small to you?!

My middle DC is 12. He's still a child, I consider him small. Not a baby obviously but a child in need of care & support - which he's got from OP since he was 8.

I know, she can't continue in the same vein. But they are small DC. It's not the OP's fault at all but she did know there were children involved when she started the relationship & while I don't think that trumps everything, I think you can't just ignore that fact, when you reach the stage of parting.

If she was 'just' their dad's wife, that's a different SM role. But she did parent them, she has been a constant in their lives for a significant time.

I think that matters.

@JudgeJerry

I’m not clear whether you actually want to continue having a relationship with your DSCs. Do you love them? Do you like them? If your STBXH dropped dead tomorrow, would you take custody of them, or pass them onto the hands of social services?

I don't know myself really. I don't want to reject or abandon anyone, the last thing I want is to cause pain to them. But by the same token, no I don't want to essentially be a parent to 3 children at 28 years old. I've done that. It is exhausting and I am so done with it. I just want to be able to move on with my life as much as I can.

Yes I do love them, in our own way. I wouldn't say I consider them my children, despite me doing basically all the care in the past 4 years, I did what they needed because no one else was and we of course do have a bond due to that. I don't though, feel any strong desire to maintain a high level of contact no. It actually makes me really anxious thinking about it because I just know from experience how that will end up which is me feeling too guilty to put a stop to anything and feeling again like I am the only one 'stepping up'.

As for the what would I do if he dropped dead comment, I honestly don't know. That's too much for me to consider.

@JudgeJerry It sounds like you have a similar emotional attachment to your DSC as many an ex-nanny - not surprising when that’s the role you have had dumped on you for several years. Unlike many pps, in the absence of your own DC I would have recommended a clean break and complete withdrawal from the situation. However, as per my pp, I think your big issue is the dynamics of the ongoing sibling relationship. Jealousy could lead to fractured and unhappy relationships for your DC in your husband’s household. This is the moment when you can help smooth that - not for your husband or even DSCs but because it benefits your child.

I’n sorry - this is a tough situation- I suggest you talk this through with a counsellor.

I see her more like an au-pair who is married to their father. Au-pairs move on. So is the OP.

That's not the case.

Although her ex may have treated OP like a nanny, she was married to their father, they had a child together & she didn't live in the house like an au pair, she was an adult in charge.

The DC didn't see her as an au pair, and would not clear on the roles. They are not stupid.

Again, I don't think the OP is doing anything wrong, but to try & characterise her as equivalent to an au pair in the children's eyes is daft.

@ThatsAllFolks

I have what I suppose are exstepchildren. I love them dearly. I would have been gutted to lose them. Luckily they were generous with their time and I have a minor DC they would not have wanted to lose. They still come and stay with me. Nowadays they drive themselves. It's all nice. Think carefully OP.

Genuine question - how similar were the circumstances of your split compared to the OP's? Kids ages, level of contact, usefulness of ex-DP, their DM on the scene?

@Diverseopinions

How on earth can one know whether or not stbx is after free childcare

Just a lucky hunch

As brutal as it is, you are separating and they are not your biological children.
The children will adjust to seeing less of their siblings in the same way they will have to adjust to seeing less of you/Ex Dh there’s no difference.
As long as you don’t snub them in the street and as long as they’re always welcome at your house then that’s all you need to do.
You shouldn’t agree to anything related to them. Brutal but it’s not your responsibility.
You can still foster a relationship with them whilst maintaining 0% responsibility for them eg like an auntie or family friend.

This is right - you weren’t really these children’s parent- you were just an unpaid full time plus nanny, but probs treated far worse by your husband than he would treat paid employees at work.

So your future relationship should be like those that ex nanny’s have. I’m nearly 50, and I still have dinner at least once a year with the woman who looked after me for a year when I was 4 and after school for a few years after that. She lived in the same village, and her daughter was a few years older than me, and I would pop round every couple of weeks when I was a young teenager and she would feed me cake, then when I got older we’d go out for a drink together. She provided a useful and safe sounding board for me through tough times with my parents. I can still remember being so proud to take her out to lunch at swanky London restaurant when I moved there and got a decent job.

She’s one of the most respected people in my life, and the fact she didn’t commit to looking after me on a regular basis for free after my parents stopped paying her for childcare didn’t change that

@JudgeJerry

I don’t have children or step children, but I do have a husband who is a workaholic and leaves 100% of everything else to me.

Someone said them working all the time is better than them gaming all the time, but it’s not, it’s the same thing. I think you only know that if you’ve been through it though.

I would say that you should absolutely not commit to any fixed plans in regards to SC. It seems like your DH is less concerned with how much all the children will see each other (if so he would want 50/50, so the children would get maximum time together) and more concerned with how it will affect him. He just wants you to continue to do the role he has forced you into. He wants to carry on putting his addiction, work, above everything else as he has been doing and for you to make it easier on him.

You are not in the wrong for wanting to put your needs first and having this boundary. It would be okay if you never made any plans with the SC if that’s what you felt was best. You said yourself, they don’t see you as a mother, and in any other situation, no one would expect a step parent to continue seeing the step children.

I suspect that if he has left the majority of the childcare and parental responsibility to you for the last four years, that it will go one of two ways. Either he will get Mum3 ensconsed as soon as he is able to (and you become the baddie ex) or he will play silly buggers with the child you have together, either with maintenance or seeing them, because he can barely manage with two, let alone three cannot be arsed
Good luck x

How very sad.

I'd be quite forceful at the start with your ex to ensure he puts in place the proper and adequate levels of childcare he will need to ensure the safe provision and care of his children.

After that is set up, you can then arrange for the nanny, or whoever will look after them, to drop the two children over to yours for dinner biweekly.

You can negotiate backwards from a strong position but you can't do it so well from a soft one. Assure the children you want to maintain contact and that you will.

I would imagine for them it will be pretty devestating. Poor poor children. Not wanted by anyone. How sad.

The 12 year old can presumably get themselves back from school as that one is at secondary?

The 9 year old is not far away from secondary. Your ex only has a couple of years of childcare before much of the school year is taken care of and both children more independent anyway.

He sounds like he's an addict, using work as an emotional avoidance tool. Do you have joint wills and as someone said, if he dropped dead what would happen to your joint assets and custody of all the children?

Also if your DC is mostly spending the week with you, having your ex's DC for a weekend from time to time could work.

He would then have your DC and his own kids for the weekend too. It should probably be one in four? So you have all the kids, once a month. You have your own DC every other weekend and then two weekends to yourself. That's 12 times a year...

Surely you can find something that works? How else are you going to organise your weekends?

To some extent I think you are young, naive and selfish. Why have children with a man who already had that much baggage? Why involve yourself in other children's lives when you had no long-term goal or plan to support them. Honestly I do find your approach selfish. Yes it's probably because you've bitten off more than you can chew and now you're backtracking way too late. But with maturity comes responsibility. You got yourself into this mess and now you I feel until those children are a little older, say in 2 years time when the youngest is at secondary, you could then step down a little. No, they aren't yours but what a complete fucked up pair they will be and probably already are. 12 weekends a year is at least something and that is all your do, nothing else. No picks ups or drop offs etc. No other help. But at least they get to see you and your DC and some of their old life will continue. Everything else is non-negotiable. You may even miss them....

What a nightmare.

You have been a step mother full time to them for 4 years, won't they be very upset not to see you? I would suggest that you commit to at least coming around for tea once a week as it's really helpful to keep a amicable relationship and in my experience over food always helps, your dsc can see you then, plus occasionally hanging out as a family is so good for children. No you shouldn't need to do childcare, but if they want contact do allow them for their sakes

Am I right in thinking that if you see them once a fortnight, you'll be aware of how neglectful he is being to them, and as a responsible adult, feel like you have to step in and up, because if you don't, who will?

If that's the case, you don't have a duty. And I also thought you'd be mid 30s, not 28! You have had three kids, two of whom you didn't choose and didn't deliver. You have a right to a break and a rest from what must have been pretty crushing responsibility.

A man in his late 40s telling a woman in her late 20s, who became involved with him in her very early 20s, that it is 'right and proper' that she does a huge amount of his childcare, unpaid, is bluntly not that far off controlling. He's certainly attempting that. I'd tell him to get a nanny, a live-in one, and that you'll happily have the kids on the odd playdate IF he doesn't ask, and it comes from you.

The power imbalance here is huge, from the sounds of it, and if you don't cut this and walk away, you'll be unable to help being dragged in.

As you know, I started by thinking you needed a clear cut schedule for the avoidance of doubt. But I had no idea of the age difference, or how young you were when the terms of the relationship were set, and it matters. I think you have an absolute duty to your own child to protect your mental health from your ex, and it does sound as if you are afraid of going under. That matters enormously. Follow your gut, and while I admire the gumption leaving must have taken, I'm sorry things have reached this point.

Their father will replace you, I'm sure. Kind gifts and Easter eggs and the odd playdate is probably all you will manage without being sucked back.

Don't forget to have yourself removed as a contact for their schools, doctors, hobbies etc etc, too. Doesn't sound like you will say no if a call comes saying that they've had a fall and something may be broken - that's their father's role, not yours.

You don't have to see them that regularly or commit to having regular contact. However, I think that it is mean and potentially damaging to them for you to suddenly step away. You can surely continue to meet up with them or have them round? If needs be fade out over time, but right now they will want or need some stability. Four years is a long time in the life of a child and they will regard you as part of their family. You don't have to have them to stay every weekend etc. Just a few hours here or there or the occasional sleepover if that's what they want. I get that you are fed up with having been left to do all the graft, but please don't take this out on these children who are innocent in all of this.