Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

I'm sorry that your dsc parents have failed them but that is not your responsibility. I think it is sad that they are in this situation but you have not put them there. I think the best thing you can do really is initiate contact and meet ups. It could be random times and days once a week rather than set something up as part of a routine so you are not taken for granted. I hope you will be ok as no doubt this is a huge upheaval for you too.

@Mummyoflittledragon because OP is young, has been manipulated and taken advantage of, they are not her children, she has already taken on far more of a parental responsibility for these children then their own parents and she is divorcing their father.

they can have an overnight at their fathers house to maintain a relationship with their sibling.

Quite how @Diverseopinions has typed this sentence is beyond me

What he's doing now is thinking of the kids' interests: I don't think he's being cheeky or lazy

@JudgeJerry

That was another point he made, regarding our DC and contact between siblings. That my DSC will be devastated not to see their sibling as much anymore and I do actually agree with him there, that will be the toughest on them I think as they absolutely adore our DC.

Well if he's concerned that they're going to be so devastated maybe he should have stepped up a lot more and you wouldn't be separating from him. I'd be having a chat with the DCs and explaining to them that as their dad is moving out they won't see as much of you and your DC, but that you still love them and you'll look forward to having them visit sometimes.

(Although thinking about it, you might need to be careful. Would his ex stop you having any contact if you're not with DH?)

You sound considerate and sensible. Surely the main contact between the siblings will be when he is looking after all his children? I would leave it at that until that is firmly established. If you then felt you wanted to do more then you could on an ad hoc basis. But start out keeping it small and simple. It sounds like you feel this is another problem that you should solve - probably because you are in the habit of having to do so - and he will take advantage of your kind nature if he can.

I dunno, if I wasn't working (not sure if you are?) I'd probably maintain contact with them, poor kids.

@JudgeJerry

It's an interesting idea, him cooking for all of us instead. I do worry that it would muddy the waters though for the children, especially ours who is younger, seeing us all having a happy family meal together regularly. And it wouldn't be very enjoyable for me either I must admit!

I think the opposite. Have seen so many kids get caught between two parents, who think they are being fair but actually talking down about the other/kids passing on messages etc. The best example I saw was divorced parents who actually spent Christ together, the young kids knew this but they could see mum and dad happy together and went happily between houses. Holidays were say booking 2 static caravans for each parent and kids staying with both and doing some joint activities. Not for everyone but it looked to work so so we’ll for keeping the children settled.

I dunno, if I wasn't working (not sure if you are?) I'd probably maintain contact with them, poor kids.

OP has confirmed that she works.

It sounds like you feel this is another problem that you should solve - probably because you are in the habit of having to do so - and he will take advantage of your kind nature if he can.

This is something I want to be so careful with definitely. I had some therapy myself when he refused and it was something we touched on. I've always been a people pleaser, questioning myself constantly when I feel people are asking too much, whether I'm being reasonable or not. I rarely put myself first often to my own detriment.

I appreciate you can't always put yourself first with DC involved but this is where the line blurs for me because DSC aren't actually my children so how much can I put myself first or not.

I have made so much progress working on myself, I feel confident for the first time in a lot of my decisions but this one had me back to questioning myself. I really don't want to go backwards and allow myself to be used again like that.

I think I would do a weekly or fortnightly tea at yours, and you pick them up from school. If he ever, even once, pressures you to start doing another day a week, or dropping them to hobbies before or after, then the teas stop immediately. Put that boundary in place before he's even done and make it clear you'll be sticking with it.

If he messes up, then it's not on you.

I would make them regular for the DSC benefit though. Kids need a routine, and it's not their fault their mother is useless - even if they don't see you as a mum, they'd hugely suffer if you never saw them again for instance.

@CirqueDeMorgue

I dunno, if I wasn't working (not sure if you are?) I'd probably maintain contact with them, poor kids.

Yes, the OP is working as she’s already said.

But the children’s dad used to feel it was easier for her to do childcare/school runs/cooking/cleaning whilst working, than him take a break from HIS important work do do any of those things for his children.

Also yeah to be honest my overriding thought was 'poor kids'. That's not on you, that's on their parents, but this situation will be really, really tough on them.

Hi OP been following your dilemma all afternoon.

Its such a shame that DSC are in a situation where neither of their parents are willing to make the time for them but hard as it sounds this isn't your problem. As you have said you have looked after them because their father refuses to for years, puts everything on to you and this is basically why you are divorcing. In your situation I would say enough is enough too.

I'm not sure why posters who are saying this is cruel really expect you to do over the long term. When a relationship between two adults breaks down the benefits of that relationship (financial, child care etc) also go. You don't get to have your cake and eat it.

This is for their father and mother to resolve as far as they are able, if they are able. Both have screwed up and its not up to you to paper over the cracks anymore. Completely appreciate that it is hard and morally difficult but you've not put these children in this position, the people who brought them into the world have. For better or worse this is on them now. Do what is best for you and your child.

I would make it clear to your DH that you are not going to enter any kind of regular arrangement to see/have his children at yours. He will have to sort out all school runs, appointments, shopping and caring for his own children. That's what being a parent means. You are not their parent.

He will also be having the child you share together to his on a regular basis, such as EOW and a weeknight or something agreeable. Those visits will also maintain the sibling relationship, which is frankly, his job to facilitate. Make that clear as well.

After things have settled down and you've each settled into your own homes, you can say you may be willing to help the sibling relationship at your end by having them round for a meal once in a while, or perhaps meet them for a meal somewhere. But it will not be a regular, scheduled thing unless you want it to be, and you will not be hosting sleepovers.

Tell him if he's going to struggle parenting his own children full time, then he needs to look at childcare/babysitting arrangements elsewhere for support. Or have a serious conversation with his ex wife who is actually the mother to the children.

I've only read your responses so far. I think there are two issues here - one is your exH trying to basically force you to care for an parent his children, which is totally not on. And the other is the emotional fall out for those kids - they've already been abandoned by one mother, so it would be hard for them to be abandoned by another (or at least, how they would perceive it).

So I'd be inclined to agree a set arrangement for the benefit of the DC and to give them stability, but with very clear ring fencing. Maybe tea once a week to which he drops them and they are collected a few hours later. I thin it would be nice if you could have them from after school on that day, but I completely understand how that becomes childcare for your ex and he's likely to take the piss if you allow it.

Depending on how things go, if you WANT to spend more time with them you can CHOOSE to invite them to join you for something or whatever.

@myrtleWilson

Quite how *@Diverseopinions* has typed this sentence is beyond me

What he's doing now is thinking of the kids' interests: I don't think he's being cheeky or lazy

Glue?

YANBU at all. I like the idea of offering to join them for dinner occasionally before pick up (you can hang out with the SC while he makes dinner), and say that you’d like to invite SC to play dates during your contact time, but there will be no schedule or commitment.

By not promising a schedule then you should be able to get comfortable that you’re not being exploited for childcare. That’s your best hope of maintaining a relationship with the children without it feeling like a chore.

Would you consider moving to more of a fun aunt level of relationship with them, rather than care giver. For example take them out together or individually for fun days out occasionally do sleepovers let them know they can talk to you and you are still there for them and will always be in their lives. Keep the relationship between you and the dc and don't involve him as much as you can.

@Folklore9074

Hi OP been following your dilemma all afternoon.

Its such a shame that DSC are in a situation where neither of their parents are willing to make the time for them but hard as it sounds this isn't your problem. As you have said you have looked after them because their father refuses to for years, puts everything on to you and this is basically why you are divorcing. In your situation I would say enough is enough too.

I'm not sure why posters who are saying this is cruel really expect you to do over the long term. When a relationship between two adults breaks down the benefits of that relationship (financial, child care etc) also go. You don't get to have your cake and eat it.

This is for their father and mother to resolve as far as they are able, if they are able. Both have screwed up and its not up to you to paper over the cracks anymore. Completely appreciate that it is hard and morally difficult but you've not put these children in this position, the people who brought them into the world have. For better or worse this is on them now. Do what is best for you and your child.

I agree with this.

OP was manoeuvred into being the primary carer for her own child and her DSC because their father is a workaholic who refuses to take care of his own children. She's leaving because of this. It is not her responsibility to continue to be primary carer for his children (the SDC). He's going to have to step up to the mark and get his shit together. If that includes being home in the mornings and evenings and not working weekends, so be it. But in actual fact, it's probably going to end up with him seeing his child with the OP less than arranged because his work is going to take precedence and he's going to be cancelling or trying to rearrange to suit his work schedule.

It's so easy for 'armchair quarterbacks' to sit there and say "I'd do this/I'd do that" or "You're cruel if you don't XYZ" when they aren't actually the ones being faced with the problem. OP isn't saying she's going to cut her DSC out of her life. She's saying she will no longer be the primary carer or the primary 'fallback' for her STBXH and is trying to find a happy medium that lets him know in no uncertain terms that he's going to have to change his ways.

YANBU. It can be sad for SC to lose their step parent in a divorce, but the reality is that SC come as a package deal with the real parent.

@JudgeJerry I’m not clear whether you actually want to continue having a relationship with your DSCs. Do you love them? Do you like them? If your STBXH dropped dead tomorrow, would you take custody of them, or pass them onto the hands of social services? I think it might help you to talk this through with a non-judgmental counsellor to work out what you really want. I think it’s best you work this out independently before taking discussions any further.

Be prepared that whatever you want will have a cost.

If you want to have continued contact with them, I suggest you discuss it with the kids directly, giving them a few acceptable (to you) options and agreeing which. Then present that to STBXH as a fait accompli. Personally I would recommend a regular agreed arrangement, even if it’s once a month, rather than ad hoc where it’s hard for you to put boundaries in place. Any care you give your DSCs will inevitably help your STBXH but it would be churlish to refuse just for that reason.

If you don’t continue contact, be prepared for your own DC to challenge you, not just now, but also in the future. Be aware how it might affect your DC’s relationship with his dad and brothers when they visit with them. There is a risk your own child will suffer if your DSC feel rejected by you.

Has your child only ever lived with their half-siblings? If so, it’s going to be very hard to explain why the family is being broken up and they can’t live with their siblings anymore.

would you take custody of them, or pass them onto the hands of social services?

They have a mother.

She's saying she will no longer be the primary carer or the primary 'fallback' for her STBXH and is trying to find a happy medium

But to the children in this scenario, the person who has always been their primary carer (for whatever reason, it’s not their fault) is now saying that’s enough, I won’t be your primary carer anymore. It’s a bad situation all round but I just don’t know how those children escape unscathed emotionally by it.

Absolutely bloody not! He just wants a babysitter!

You tell him

“We arrange a contact schedule for our child. Yours see him when he comes to stay. I’m happy to have a cup of tea at yours now and again to catch up with them. We’ll do that on an ad hoc basis.”