Possibly a sensitive topic but AIBU to say no to this?

[JudgeJerry]

Have lurked here for a little while but my first post.

My husband and I are separating. There is a whole host of reasons for this but one of the big ones is I just felt like I got no help from him with anything, he was always working and everything else was left to me (I also work). Resentment was starting to build massively and he has never done anything to change things despite us going over this so many times, suggesting counselling etc...

We have one DC together and my husband has two older DC from a previous relationship who live with him full time and see their mother on a very ad-hoc basis, contact with their DM has been this way for about 4 years now (issues I won't go into here).

We are trying to arrange contact arrangements with our DC, and we have been arguing basically about my DSC. He thinks it would be right for them to continue having some form of schedule to see myself and their half sibling. I do not agree. They will obviously still see their half sibling, our DC, when they go to their Dad's but I don't see why this needs to involve me.

Whilst I do care for my step children, this is one of the things that caused so many issues in our relationship, that I felt he pushed everything onto me in regards to the children, I basically took over everything and he didn't change a thing. Which is something that seems to be common place from my reading on here.

I highly suspect he is saying this is 'right and fair' so that he continues getting help from me with childcare.

Quite honestly I'm just ready for a clean break or as clean a break as we can possibly manage with DC in the mix and, whilst I don't mind the occasional tea with me and DC or whatever, I do not want to put myself in the position of committing to contact or a schedule with his older children.

I appreciate though it's going to be big changes for everyone and probably a lot of upset. I did take on the role a mother probably would in terms of practical care for DSC day to day but they certainly don't see me as their Mum and still very much love their DM despite the issues.

I just don't know what to do for the best.

I agree, I'd go with nothing scheduled. I imagine he's going then try to push arranging stuff with them to get out of childcare. I would (at first) systematically turn down the things he suggests (sounds like he'll go along the lines of "the DSC have been talking about DC non-stop - can they come over now?" etc.), while making sure to set up plenty of ad hoc stuff when it suits you (we're off to the cinema, would DSC like to come?/would they like to come over for a pizza? etc.) so that the DSC don't feel like you're rejecting them. If you can set a pattern straight away by being firm in the beginning, hopefully that will make it easier for you and DC to see DSC in the future.

so tricky but I think you are correct to put your foot down. There is a contact schedule for your child and that is it. You give your phone number and email to the other children and keep in contact that way. He simply wants you to continue to childcare for him. Nothing will change unless you change it. You now get to pick and choose. You can do nice things like take them out for a few hours once a month for lunch. The fact is, once he hooks in a new woman to take over your role the contact would stop because its not legally binding. They're not yours. Its sad but true. Tell them you will always be their friend and if they need you to call you but he now has to step up to do their day to day care.

Ah nope. I am an idiot. I have been reading it as eldest being only 8.
As eldest is 12 and youngest 9 . You my dear OP have been behaving like a saint.
They are not your kids. Your responsibility is to your own child. Your STBX Has been taking the piss. At 9 and 12 there is no reason for the children not to be told that they will be shared care between their own parents.

Usual access these days seems to be 1 overnight and every other weekend. Does this suit You for your child to be with their dad at these times ?
If so there is no reason for the children to not see the step children at his. Please do not allow him or the mother of his other children to try and guilt you into doing their jobs. 💐

I personally would not want to sit having a "family" meal with my EX when we first split. Absolute hell.

Boundaries need to be put in place.

Yes, l do feel sorry for the SDC but this is not OPs problem to resolve.

I wonder if he assumed EOW would mean you'd have the SDC at yours also EOW....

God what a tricky situation for you @JudgeJerry.

Do you think you will miss them?

I didn't live with my ex, his children did though- and I really, really miss them even though we didn't all live together. I don't miss him. If we had lived in the same house I absolutely would be hoping to have them round regularly and would hope to still be part of their lives if they wanted that. In the same capacity as a lovely Aunt.

As it is, it seems odd and a bit over an overstepping of boundaries to still want to see them so I have left it. Makes me very sad though.

My dc miss them too, we had so much fun together on days out and a couple of holidays. Our lives weren't blended together so we never saw each other as family but we were close for 4 years- they were lovely children and if we HAD lived under the same roof? Gosh I think I would be heartbroken.

Appreciate how hard this is for you though OP. You sound like your rational and logical brain has kicked in to get you through it, just saying don't underestimate how you might FEEL at a later stage too. Best of luck

@JudgeJerry there seem to be a few pp trying to guilt you into continuing with being the unpaid nanny for your useless ex. Your DSC will be fine seeing you every few weeks when it suits YOU. Don’t feel obliged to do anything more than you want to do. I don’t think you should do family meals or spend any time in each other’s homes. Don’t offer to pick them up from school or help in emergencies. You know that your ex will do the least amount of childcare that he can get away with - you know he won’t change.

@DeathStare

I think you are being really mean. You have been the mother-figure to those children and withdraw that relationship from them just because their dad is an asshole is a horrible thing to do to them.

No, she's been used as a housekeeper by a man who didn't want to parent his own kids. They already have a mother. They don't need to visit dad's old girlfriend/ex wife just because dad can't be arsed looking after them on his miserable every-other-Saturday visit.

Wow he sounds useless. Shame he didn't help you out a bit more and then none of this would be happening it seems? He will have to hire a nanny or something - not your problem!! Stand your ground.

Firstly, I think you have to see past what's happening now and decide whether you want to have continued contact with DSC. If so, a way needs to be found so you can DSC can either have the odd evening/stayover or day trip with you, either on a stated regular basis (ie once a week/more/less) or ad hoc when you can invite them as you would do any other close member of the family.

The other thing to bear in mind perhaps is that, at 9 and 12, your relationship with them will evolve massively over the next few years as they can get places by themselves and need less active parenting.

Actually, you might get to the stage where you don't mind them coming round for tea quite frequently because they're not much trouble and entertain your DC. And the elder one, if responsible enough, might be up for doing some babysitting in 4-5 years time when they're older.

That doesn't mean committing to anything regular (and given your ex's history, you'd be unwise to as he'll take advantage). But depending on your relationship with the DSC (are they well-behaved or hard work? Do you get on with them?), you could keep in touch and eventually establish a relationship with them independently of your ex that suits both you and the SDC. They're not going to need childcare for many more years.

@JudgeJerry

What do you think he will do re childcare? What are his working hours/situation?
Has he got a house ready to move into?
When are you physically separating households?

Will your dsc and dc ever be at the same school or school site?

If so, it would be difficult to avoid the after school pick up scenario of Well, as you'll be picking up A, there's no reason you can't pick up B and C at the same time.

If not, then school pick ups at the same time from different places wouldn't work anyway so you'd have a very legitimate reason that you can't pick up the dsds on an evening they might come to you.

If it was me I'd worry that an ad hoc arrangement would allow him more room for taking advantage of you Could you do an extra night this week? I'm dropping them round early this evening etc so I'd go for something set in stone with pick up and drop off times agreed. e.g. Wednesday evening fortnightly 5pm to 8pm.

That way you can show the dscs that you wanted to keep seeing them and even got a formal agreement to that end. ExH has no wriggle room and you all know exactly what you are committed to. As they become older teens they'll have more independence and will be able to arrange their own visits and drop ins directly with you.

Good luck. Sounds horribly sad for everyone

That's why I think all visits could usefully be strictly at OP's invitation.

No no no no. Please stick to your guns op.
I can tell from the amount of replies that you will have had some posters telling you how awful you are.

You want a clean break from the stresses of stepparenting. I understand that fully. And guess what? You can be free of it all if you’re not with him anymore. That’s the beauty of it.

Surely the children will see each other when they’re all with him. He’s just frustrated that his older children won’t really see their mum that often and he wants a break from them all at once, and is trying to use you in order to achieve that. What about their mother?!

When I split with my ex, nobody rammed it down my throat to have exdsc round. Part of the reason I split with my ex was the stresses of being with someone with a child, so the last thing I wanted was for it to carry on when it didn’t need to.
I have kept in touch with exdsc, but it’s not been forced or rammed down my throat or anything, which make our relationship more natural and more friendly. We speak maybe once or twice a month or something and they come for tea occasionally too. And family occasions such as my children’s birthdays involve them too. I wish them well and want the best for them, but I don’t play a big part in their lives any more and I think that’s normal.

OP I think you need to transition into a “favourite auntie” type role for your DSC.

So every so often you ring up exH and say when are DSC free for a day with me, I would love to see them. And he gives you dates and you agree a date. Or, he can invite you round to his to see them, and you are free to say yes or no that doesn’t suit. But it is in no way a regular commitment or obligation.

I agree he’s panicking, he’s managed to live his life untrammelled by childcare obligations and now that’s changing.

Another statement for the mirror, perhaps: "I am not your service human."

Hmmm i might be in the minority but I think you ought not make it adhoc. Adhoc is much more likely to lead to slippery slopes. Instead make it very distinct as to what is contact for your shared child & what is for your DSC. Eg.
DC = He has Every other weekend & every Thursday after nursery/school & drop off the next day at school/nursery.
DSC = You have them after school one night when your DC is with you & one Saturday night a month when your DC is with you.
That demonstrates to your DSC that you are committed to maintaining a relationship & you facilitate this at your house at your terms that keeps kids retaining their sibling status.
Children need certainty. You need certainty. A calendar all drawn up that shows who is where & when will keep it fixed. It will help you to say no & keep your boundaries, whilst also allowing you flexibility to say yes or extend an invite to DSC when you want to. It sounds like you want to maintain the relationship but worried you'll overflex, so assert what it is that works for you & send it in writing. Remember you don't have to negotiate. You can just be clear what suits you. You aren't used to it yet, but it'll come. Good luck with your future.

When I split with my ex, nobody rammed it down my throat to have exdsc round. Part of the reason I split with my ex was the stresses of being with someone with a child, so the last thing I wanted was for it to carry on when it didn’t need to.
I have kept in touch with exdsc, but it’s not been forced or rammed down my throat or anything, which make our relationship more natural and more friendly. We speak maybe once or twice a month or something and they come for tea occasionally too. And family occasions such as my children’s birthdays involve them too. I wish them well and want the best for them, but I don’t play a big part in their lives any more and I think that’s normal

This sounds very sensible and what I would expect from a separation involving SC. Good to hear from someone on the other side.

@Haffdonga

Will your dsc and dc ever be at the same school or school site?

If so, it would be difficult to avoid the after school pick up scenario of Well, as you'll be picking up A, there's no reason you can't pick up B and C at the same time.

If not, then school pick ups at the same time from different places wouldn't work anyway so you'd have a very legitimate reason that you can't pick up the dsds on an evening they might come to you.

If it was me I'd worry that an ad hoc arrangement would allow him more room for taking advantage of you Could you do an extra night this week? I'm dropping them round early this evening etc so I'd go for something set in stone with pick up and drop off times agreed. e.g. Wednesday evening fortnightly 5pm to 8pm.

That way you can show the dscs that you wanted to keep seeing them and even got a formal agreement to that end. ExH has no wriggle room and you all know exactly what you are committed to. As they become older teens they'll have more independence and will be able to arrange their own visits and drop ins directly with you.

Good luck. Sounds horribly sad for everyone

I think that, too. If the boundaries are set in stone, with the only flexibility being that either OP or her ex can cancel if it's inconvenient, (no question of making the time up, either!) then there's less room for him to slowly manage to create a status quo where she has them more and more. The limits to the arrangement are very clear at the beginning. So the kids have security, and he knows that if he plays silly buggers, she won't have them at all, and she can be blunt that the arrangement is for the kids, not him.

He's using meaningless cliches like 'right and proper' to avoid actual facts. Thought-terminating cliches are designed to vaguely guilt you, but mean nothing. There's nothing 'right and proper' about thinking you can exact childcare from someone even after she's divorced you for treating her like a nanny and housekeeper. It's entitled sexism, and there's nothing right or proper about that.

I would put the children first. If the DSC don't see their mother often, due to her issues, then it will be nice for them to have a warm loving place to visit often, which is familiar to them, where the adult doesn't have issues, which has been their home for some time, and where they feel wanted.

If you and your husband are splitting, and keeping on two homes now, instead of one, it is going to be a lot more expensive. I imagine your husband is going to need to work long hours: and you too. I can see his viewpoint. Of course, he'd like it to be as easy as possible and as enjoyable for all the children. He can't just give up work to be there for his kids, all the time. It might not be possible for his two children to visit at the times when it's convenient for you to let your and stbx 's child go to him - especially when you'll both be working extra hours. What he's doing now is thinking of the kids' interests: I don't think he's being cheeky or lazy.

I guess when you create new families and add children to them, you are putting out the happy, loving families narrative. It's a pity to change it suddenly to something grudging.

Increasing the warmth and support doesn't really hurt anyone. I think setting restrictions, as you mention, won't really make things nicer for anyone, even you.

I'm sure your stbx didn't choose to have a first wife who has issues which actually have precluded the children living with her, from a young age, when in the general run of things, they would have been living with their mum. He's put the children first and appears to have provided them with a loving home: why not nurture that idea and go the extra mile to promote loving and supportive relationships all round?

I can't see a reference to how old your child is or DSC , but, unless 22 and 25 is the answer, then I think it is nice for them to be welcomed and to have homely stability. Nice for your child too.

If you build loving relationships now, it will benefit your child, your DSC , your husband, and I think yourself. Who knows what is round the corner: we all might benefit from family support in our lives, going forward. You might need somebody to do your shopping for you, when you're elderly. Why not do everything you can to nurture the relationship with DC, DSC and stbx?

I am trying to work out a way forward that also doesn't involve me essentially being in the same situation that I'm trying to get out of.

And this is what a lot of posters aren't absorbing. That you've had enough. And the ball is in your court, you know, @JudgeJerry.

I think at least in the short-term you need a break, and ad hoc is probably best given you think your STBXH will muck you about. You can also keep in touch with the SDC by phone, messaging the 12 year old, cards etc.

The other option if you want to is for him to sign over parental responsibility to you so you’re their mother. He then pays you money every month.

I would just focus on contact arrangements for your child and tell him that "you'll see" for the others. The 12 yo will soon be able to visit independently and soon after that will be too old for a rigid contact arrangement in any case. Your ex should be preparing his children for your separation.

I completely understand your need for clear boundaries. You have not caused this situation and it's not your sole responsibility to resolve it. Good luck

Personally, I would say a Sunday every other week or once a month for a few hours in the afternoon, stay for Sunday dinner and their dad can drop them off and pick them up. This way you don't have to deal with school runs and get tied into that and they get to spend time all afternoon with their sibling and it wouldn't be such a rush after school.
Slightly different but we used to see my half brother every Sunday when we were young kids and because he was older used to bring his game consoles and it was usually the highlight of our week.

I think an ad hoc arrangement when it's convenient to you is the way forward here. A regular arrangement early on is a slippery slope to you picking up more and more of the parenting of the DSC. With this man's history, it wouldn't surprise me if you ended up seeing your DSC more often than he sees your joint DC.

Long term it would be better for the DSC to build a better relationship with their father by having him finally becoming a responsible parent.