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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
Dissimilitude · 16/08/2021 16:03

Biden cannot be absolved of responsibility for this in any way. Withdrawing is the right decision.

But having no inkling of the utter fragility of the Afghan forces is a monumental intelligence and policy failure that ultimately lands on Biden as President. In no way shape or form was this meant to be the plan (people falling from planes, killings of government backers, billions of dollars worth of military hardware falling into Taliban and Iranian hands, the $700m embassy abandoned).

And Biden on holiday.

This is a bigger foreign policy fuck up than Trump managed in 4 years, easily.

paepoyrol · 16/08/2021 16:03

@Chippingbird23 what makes you think Americans didn't want this?

gardeninggirl68 · 16/08/2021 16:03

@BrozTito

gardening because im sick of short sighted sympathising for utter scumbags on here because they show an anti trans stance?
'troops' are people too you know....men and women with families at home just like everyone else.....

my DH served in Afghan....I came to hate the word, the place.....dreaded the phone or the welfare officer anywhere near our quarter .

one of our neighbours was killed out there, wont ever forget the relief it wasn't me getting that news combined with the shock of hearing her scream in shock. our marriage didnt survive my DH's PTSD. he got a medical discharge.

i'm glad the troops are withdrawing,we can't solve the problems out there, nobody has never got close to it

gardeninggirl68 · 16/08/2021 16:04

sorry @BrozTito didnt mean to quote you there!!!

knittingaddict · 16/08/2021 16:04

All I think this shows is the appalling state of US politics. How Trump got in is a mystery to me, but the US could have taken a brave step and replaced him with someone considerably better. Instead they took the cowards way out and got Biden. He was the lowest common denominator and that's all the electorate would accept.

Anyone left of right wing is considered a communist over there. I despair really. It's time the US acceted that their reputation is shot to pieces and may never be able to be put back together again.

Alondra · 16/08/2021 16:06

@jasjas1973

As an European have had a gutful of foreign American policies. The sooner we get an European force, the better

@Alondra For Prime Minister!

We will there in the next 10 years.
UsedUpUsername · 16/08/2021 16:07

There is no vaccine mandate, and the UK has been in lockdown infinitely more times than we have

Vaccine mandates are often debated in the US and very often promoted by the left. That they haven’t succeeded doesn’t mean they haven’t tried or don’t support them ...

They are already mandated in some workplaces and universities. State and local governments are starting to demand vaccine passports.

Hopefully it will be relegated to just blue states as the federal government can’t force States to mandate anything, so suddenly governors have become very important.

This is a prime example of damage the Trump presidency did though - he convinced so many millions of unintelligent people that they were 'sticking it to them liberals' and keeping their 'FREEDUM' by not wearing a mask or getting the vaccine - which by the way is still voluntary

Great. Let’s keep it that way. Because mask mandates are fascist (and they don’t even work) as are vaccine passports.

Republicans, on the other hand, are hypocrites who suddenly believe 'My Body My Choice' when they don't want a vaccine but who are COMPLETELY fine with the government mandating a woman carries a pregnancy to term and undergoes invasive vaginally exams and pain

FWIW I support choice in both cases.

Littlepaws18 · 16/08/2021 16:10

I can't believe I'm going to agree, but I agree! Pulling out of Afghanistan is an appalling, immoral breach of human rights. We have left those poor people to suffer a horrendous fate. I'm disgusted with the UK also for not saving the translators who will surely be tortured and murdered. The risk to women and children too.

Trump half built a wall but Biden and Boris have just assigned a whole country to torture, murder and hell.

I'd rather have Trump any day. God I can't believe I typed that!

MsMD · 16/08/2021 16:11

Trump was awful but is evidence that sometimes it's "better the devil you know." Biden's credentials are basically that he isn't Trump, which isn't enough

Trump was not nor ever will be the 'better devil'. Joe Biden is a stop-gap president, he's not great, he may not even be good - but he is not the danger Donald Trump was.

To fully understand, you have to understand the political climate in the US. Since President Obama took office, the tensions in the country and the division has exploded. Millions of people were furious that a black man had made it - and our punishment was a known racist, a misogynist and a rapist. They wanted to punish the 'liberal lefties' so much that they found the worst kind of person. That person then gave some of our 'deplorables' the confidence to once again be open about their racism and sexism. That is ongoing.

To defeat Trump, the Democratic party put forth a number of candidates to run against him and some were amazing women, some amazing men of color. That candidate would NOT have beaten Donald Trump - and that had to be our aim. I didn't vote for Biden in the Primary race. But I got behind him when he was the nominee and it was the right call. Look at the numbers who voted for him. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker etc would NOT have gained the votes the way the boring, old, centrist, traditional candidate Biden did. And we HAD to get Trump out. I am already terrified of Trumps Supreme Court after 4 years - after 8, the damage could be irreparable.

We have some amazing candidates, but our electorate didn't want the progressive woman.

Anonymous48 · 16/08/2021 16:12

@Wannakisstheteacher

Biden is senile. This is what happens when you elect someone who is losing their mental faculties to the most powerful job on earth.
Obviously you've lost your mental faculties if you really think that.
Jaysmith71 · 16/08/2021 16:13

Littlepaws18:

And all the students who've had their offers withdrawn last week.

lannistunut · 16/08/2021 16:14

The decision taken by US and UK in Afghanistan is awful, really truly heartbreaking.

My view is that Biden is not worse than Trump.

MissConductUS · 16/08/2021 16:18

@BrozTito

UK troops are still there
Only to help with the evacuation.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/16/uk-rules-out-returning-troops-to-taliban-controlled-afghanistan

MsMD · 16/08/2021 16:19

*Vaccine mandates are often debated in the US and very often promoted by the left. That they haven’t succeeded doesn’t mean they haven’t tried or don’t support them ...

They are already mandated in some workplaces and universities. State and local governments are starting to demand vaccine passports.

Hopefully it will be relegated to just blue states as the federal government can’t force States to mandate anything, so suddenly governors have become very important.*

@UsedUpUsername

Vaccines have always been mandated in some workplaces. To start my Medical degree I had to give them access to my medical record and then had to get even more vaccines before I stepped foot in a hospital. The military get even more - mandated.

When children start school, they show their 'vaccine passport' or they don't start. They then have to continue getting vaccines throughout college and show proof. To go to certain countries you need to get certain vaccines. To play sports you need your records. To work in some jobs, you need some vaccines. The NHS has the same rules.

Vaccine Passport is nothing but another right wing talking point to scare voters away from the Democrats with absolutely no intelligence behind it. No one is going to force a needle into your arm - and no Democrat is even trying to mandate that. But yet here you are, pretending you know what you're talking about.

Justanotherlurker · 16/08/2021 16:21

I'm disgusted with the UK also for not saving the translators who will surely be tortured and murdered. The risk to women and children too.

Do people only get their news from outrage re-tweets or something?

We are currently donig that, Priti Patel pretty much made the commennt yesterday

mobile.twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1427181017182445570

The Ambassador is only one of a handful left sorting this out, the US one disapeared yesterday.

MarshaBradyo · 16/08/2021 16:23

@Justanotherlurker

I'm disgusted with the UK also for not saving the translators who will surely be tortured and murdered. The risk to women and children too.

Do people only get their news from outrage re-tweets or something?

We are currently donig that, Priti Patel pretty much made the commennt yesterday

mobile.twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1427181017182445570

The Ambassador is only one of a handful left sorting this out, the US one disapeared yesterday.

Yes he is still there and I agree a lot of this disgusted with U.K. is just automatic for some rather than looking into what’s happening.
Jaysmith71 · 16/08/2021 16:23

But we are refusing to take anyone with a demerit mark on their report card, if they failed to turn up for work at any time for any reason, or snapped back at a squaddie who racially insulted them.

Tinpotspectator · 16/08/2021 16:23

I don't think Biden is worse than Trump. Who does?!

NannyAndJohn · 16/08/2021 16:23

It seems that the number one aim of Woke Joe's presidency is to erase women and girls from existence.

It sickens me to say this, but the Republican Party would get my vote any day.

Parker231 · 16/08/2021 16:24

@Aspiringmatriarch

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?
Trump was a million times worse. Trump had no understanding of foreign policy or to manage international leaders. He dismissed Covid as something which would just go away and his actions contributed to 600k US Covid deaths.
Lweji · 16/08/2021 16:26

Trump had 4 years to support the Afghan government in preparing for the withdrawal, and signed the agreement to leave the country. He insisted even this year that Biden should leave earlier than the planned date.

But Biden is the bad President, sure.

If he cancelled it, and kept the troops in Afghanistan, he would be wildly criticised for it.

A former president invaded Afghanistan and stayed there for 6 years without a get out plan.
This was always going to happen under any President:
www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/

"A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable."

"The interviews, through an extensive array of voices, bring into sharp relief the core failings of the war that persist to this day. They underscore how three presidents — George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump — and their military commanders have been unable to deliver on their promises to prevail in Afghanistan."

"The interviews also highlight the U.S. government’s botched attempts to curtail runaway corruption, build a competent Afghan army and police force, and put a dent in Afghanistan’s thriving opium trade."

But people only pay attention when the shit (or the blood) hits the fan.

Anonymous48 · 16/08/2021 16:26

@NannyAndJohn

It seems that the number one aim of Woke Joe's presidency is to erase women and girls from existence.

It sickens me to say this, but the Republican Party would get my vote any day.

Good thing you can't vote in US elections then, isn't it?
meditrina · 16/08/2021 16:27

The Ambassador is only one of a handful left sorting this out, the US one disapeared yesterday

We might not be able to get them all, but he's staying and they're doing their best to get them (I heard on one news broadcast that UK visas/immigration/border force had set up a dedicated team here to assist the Ambassador to process as many people as possible whilst flights are still happening)

I've just looked on FlightRadar and there was nothing flying over Afghanistan or in the ground in Kabul, but there were a few 'N/A' nearby, which I assume are military aircraft of various nationalities still expecting to be able to land

Danja2010 · 16/08/2021 16:28

Trump Completely mishandled the Covid crisis. Brought an ugliness and divisiveness to the USA with his racist , misogynistic remarks. Repealed many laws that were over 100 years old that protected wildlife and parks. Lined the pockets of the wealthy with tax laws that benefited

his pals and like minded ultra rich. You might not like Biden but he enjoys the majority support of US citizens. Afghanistan is a tragic situation but it was Bush that started a war on false pretenses. It should have been stopped long ago. It was always going to be a messy withdrawal and that is why Trump did not bother finishing the withdrawal. Please don’t critique Biden’s mental health those comments come straight from the Daily Mail.

Lweji · 16/08/2021 16:28

It seems that the number one aim of Woke Joe's presidency is to erase women and girls from existence.

I've seen some stupid comments on FB, and this is among the top.