To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

[Aspiringmatriarch]

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

Thousands have died and what good has it done - fuck all.

@Yourstupidityexhaustsme that is simply not true. Life improved immeasurably for women in Afghanistan in the 20 years the western troops were there.

Where’s everyone else? Where’s China or France or Germany or the UK?

America (specifically that idiot Bush) started this war so they should finish it. Why should China, France or anyone else get involved?

And the Afghans may not be "his people" but there are now legitimate concerns that Afghanistan will once again become a training ground for terrorists. That will ultimately have an impact on the west and "his people".

*announcing withdrawal of troops

Unfortunately, the US, UK, nato and un look Impotent and pointless right now.

Also, why is it down to the US to solve the problems in Afghanistan? Or anywhere else?
Surely after 20 years it was down to the Afghanistan government. They knew the day when troops from all over the world would be withdrawn was on the horizon yet they folded within a very short time frame. They themselves had 20 years to build an army to take on the Taliban. Their army folded and their president fled the country.

I feel very frightened for the women and children who are left in Afghanistan. If the Taliban are followers of Islam, from my meagre knowledge of that religion, that is a peaceful religion. They have to start looking for peaceful means to dealing with crimes. Cutting off a hand or a foot for a crime has to stop. It's inhumane. It's wrong.

@MarshaBradyo

Some US have been critical and said it is against US interests to leave.

Those who think this, how long do they stay? Another twenty years?

Send more troops back in. Are people ok with that

Recurring theme with you Marsha and a good question..... Do you think we should withdraw from Korea just because we have been there for 70 years? what about Cyprus?

I would say that once you start something, you see it through to at least a negotiated power share (defeat of Taliban not possible)

BUT if withdrawal is the only option, you do get the people out first, then the troops, not the other way around.

At least there was some timetable in place and some previous announcements on withdrawal of troops in Afghanistan.

Timetables and announcements? They didn't seem to be much use did they.

You can't possibly argue that this withdrawal has been anything less than a complete catastrophe.

This thread is very worrying that people have already forgotten some of the awful things Trump did. What about the poor kids forcibly removed from their parents at the border and locked up under terrible conditions? What about how he bungled COVID management resulting in the deaths of so many? What about approving oil pipelines to be built through indigenous land? What about the fact that he's a racist liar who never did release his tax returns?

The border situation had improved under Trump though and has disintegrated. Problem is that according to US law, we couldn’t intern families together so the children had to be sent to foster families or relatives. You may think that the US should have just let them in the US while their asylum cases were processing (even though they are invariably economic migrants) but many like myself preferred deterrence, as no one should have been bringing children across that border. Children were being trafficked by unscrupulous coyotes who knew the chances their clients would be able to cross unimpeded were greater with children in tow.

Now you have a border crisis yet again because Biden is not doing enough to deter them and it’s only raising demand for human traffickers. Record number of unaccompanied children during the worst times of the year. No doubt people are dying in the desert right now through unintended consequences.

I don’t know if he’s a bad president or not. What I know is the he’s not living up to the expectations of being a good one so far.

Ohhhh is this a 'i dont like trans people either so im up for fascistic populist far right wannabe dictators' thing? Can usually tell when the simpletons start with the endless mentions of 'woke'

America (specifically that idiot Bush) started this war so they should finish it. Why should China, France or anyone else get involved?

What do you mean by finish it? What is your objective - get rid of Taliban. How?

It wasn’t the reason to be there. The reason was to limit extremist attacks. An insurance against future attacks.

Meeting that only occurs when you stay. There is no finishing. So how long would you stay?

The only reason he got elected is that he wasn’t Trump. He gives every impression of being half-asleep/not all there. The US seemingly has the same political problem as the UK - all the choices are fucking terrible.

This.

We should get our own house in order before critiquing next door.

Bad call. Biden obviously resented Obama's failure to withdraw and was determined to show he was his own man, come what may. And it did.

What the British learned in 1842 and the USSR in the 80s, maybe people will stop invading Afghanistan now?

So many losses and so many wounded veterans coming home with lives smashed to pieces

I feel deeply sorry for the brave soldiers and veterans. Didn't mean it that way.

Dont panic the UN are holding a meeting. Expecting them to organise a powerful celebrity rendition of kumbaya to halt the islamists in their tracks

@MarshaBradyo i ve tried to ans your question.

@CorrBlimeyGG

There needs to be an inquiry into both the US and the UK's part in this, and how both governments missed how devastatingly things would unravel.

And where the hell is Dominic Raab?

We took a hiding in 1842 when the UK lost over 16,000 troops and civilians during a withdrawal from Kabul to India. The last time was a planned orderly withdrawal. How many times is the UK supposed to do this and at what cost in more lives?

French troops were there

@BrozTito

Ohhhh is this a 'i dont like trans people either so im up for fascistic populist far right wannabe dictators' thing? Can usually tell when the simpletons start with the endless mentions of 'woke'

Honestly from the American POV the lefties are more fascist, what with their vaccine and mask mandates and love of lockdowns.

They say they do it for our own safety ... fascists always say that

The UK won in Afghanistan 1919. Pointless point.

I would say that once you start something, you see it through to at least a negotiated power share (defeat of Taliban not possible)

I do ask because I would like an answer in years and numbers and so far everyone diverts. Even the critical ambassador this morning.

How many more troops and how long. Because it’s easy to say it’s terrible. Harder to talk about what to do.

Another interesting speaker (maybe Wallace) talked about using Peace dividends very quickly. Ie withdrawing 1000s each month. Used up quickly we had little leverage for negotiation.

It’s very difficult. I’ve not been thinking about this much until now, but there is no easy way to leave. Stay or go - it will be a catastrophe. But actually could have been worse. If promise to withdraw had not been met, what would that have been like?

Also, stop being played by the Pakistani elite. The scene in "Charlie Wilson's War" where they go on about how they all went to Oxford is spot on.

Biden is senile. This is what happens when you elect someone who is losing their mental faculties to the most powerful job on earth.

Yes, deadly disease control is leffty fascism'. Stick to shots of bleach.

He is a revolting man,so much abhorrent about him,it would take a week to write it down.

Fascism is crazy, unthinkable stuff like far right conspiracists launching a coup at their political capital.......