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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
Thatsjustwhatithink · 17/08/2021 18:05

@Steakandcheeseplease

Only actually fighting there and working on foreign policy on the region. With all due respect...what the fuck do you know?

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 18:06

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Steakandcheeseplease

Only actually fighting there and working on foreign policy on the region. With all due respect...what the fuck do you know?[/quote]
What the fuck do you know?

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 18:09

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Steakandcheeseplease

Only actually fighting there and working on foreign policy on the region. With all due respect...what the fuck do you know?[/quote]
Ah yes but that completely unverified though isn't it, anyone could say they have been there and every where. I'd rather listen to actual verified people that have been there and are still there and they are horrified what the US have done.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 17/08/2021 18:09

@Steakandcheeseplease

See my answer about spending a large part of my life fighting in Afghanistan, and working on South Asia. Given you grasp of geography and history- South Asia encapsulates Pakistan, Afghanistan and India.

But what do you do? How much time have you spent in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India?

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2021 18:11

And I have answered her question many times, its almost if they stuck on repeat.

Wth did you answer my post to another poster? Confused

Just skip it. I don’t particularly want to engage with you so if you feel the same great.

And no I didn’t know you were gone with escalation. Good on you but you’d stand apart from majority of US.

Thats Flowers

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2021 18:11

Gone - fine

Thatsjustwhatithink · 17/08/2021 18:13

@Steakandcheeseplease

I read your "contributions" to this thread- you never been to Afghanistan, you have no concept of the history, tribal make up and the gulf in languages and ethnicity. You think you know about soldiers because you've got some vague relation who was in the army, but you have never been a soldier. You also seems to think that they grow poppies in Kabul. In short, you haven't got a clue about Afghanistan.

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 18:20

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Steakandcheeseplease

See my answer about spending a large part of my life fighting in Afghanistan, and working on South Asia. Given you grasp of geography and history- South Asia encapsulates Pakistan, Afghanistan and India.

But what do you do? How much time have you spent in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India?[/quote]
Just because you say you was there doesn't mean you have. However, like Ive said before, I prefer to believe real verified service men who have recently gave live interviews at their horror at what has happened and how they feel its a kick in the teeth for the men they have lost. ^They were saying that these people were worth protecting. Its a shame you don't think they are.

I don't need to travel there to see the travesty of what's happening now. So stop trying to say because I havnt been there I can't comment. I can and I will do.

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 18:23

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Steakandcheeseplease

I read your "contributions" to this thread- you never been to Afghanistan, you have no concept of the history, tribal make up and the gulf in languages and ethnicity. You think you know about soldiers because you've got some vague relation who was in the army, but you have never been a soldier. You also seems to think that they grow poppies in Kabul. In short, you haven't got a clue about Afghanistan.[/quote]
Again, I never said they grow poppies in Kabul Confused

You were the one that made that up. Once again RTFT

Thatsjustwhatithink · 17/08/2021 18:26

@Steakandcheeseplease

It must be so nice to see a soldier on the news and think that we all think alike. Guess what, we don't. We all have different experiences, thoughts and beliefs. Even in my former regiment (and yes we talked about the last few days) we've got different opinions. Some thought we should have stayed, others that we should have pulled out years ago.

I'll care about my soldiers and friends more than you'll ever know. More than you'll ever understand from your armchair. But of course you wouldn't get it, be sure you never been in the army.

But I can see your pattern here, just like what you tried to do to other posters. Someone points out your lack of knowledge, understanding or ability to provide solutions or other options- so you try and go on to personal attacks. Sadly it doesn't make your lack of argument any more convincing.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 17/08/2021 18:32

*my phone keeps autocorrecting 'because' to 'be sure'. Urgh.

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 18:49

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Steakandcheeseplease

It must be so nice to see a soldier on the news and think that we all think alike. Guess what, we don't. We all have different experiences, thoughts and beliefs. Even in my former regiment (and yes we talked about the last few days) we've got different opinions. Some thought we should have stayed, others that we should have pulled out years ago.

I'll care about my soldiers and friends more than you'll ever know. More than you'll ever understand from your armchair. But of course you wouldn't get it, be sure you never been in the army.

But I can see your pattern here, just like what you tried to do to other posters. Someone points out your lack of knowledge, understanding or ability to provide solutions or other options- so you try and go on to personal attacks. Sadly it doesn't make your lack of argument any more convincing.[/quote]
You did make it up though. I never said that. YOU said I said that so I told you to go back and check. Which I've had to do twice now.

Just because you say you are an active solider - doesn't mean you are.
Just because you say I can't comment because I've never been doesn't mean I will. Because I will do. As will plenty others. You can't bully people of threads Brew

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 19:05

Funny because the usual suspects will only believe orange man good old man bad. Both a shit show but republicans much worse, so the same as always

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 19:15

Open conflict is the opposite of covert/unconventional/proxy warfare. Why are you so angry about it?

Justanotherlurker · 17/08/2021 19:20

Just because you say you are an active solider - doesn't mean you are.
Just because you say I can't comment because I've never been doesn't mean I will. Because I will do. As will plenty others. You can't bully people of threads

To be fair, you have inflamed the situation because their stance is different to yours, there are many documentaries and column inches over the years from active and former military personal that said they didn't want to be there and it was a wasted excercise/could see the taliban taking back control as soon as they left, told to ignore the open raping of young boys by the Afgan military and police because of racial tensions etc etc, if that was this year or in 10 years time it was always a poisened chalice.

It is easy for someone not involved to say 'someone else' should have done more, inevitbly just like under Trump and Obama the military brass have decided they are not there for nation building, could they have made a better exit, definetly, is it all Bidens fault, no, if people want to blame Trump then the blame also goes back to Obama. There was always going to be point where they had to leave as it was just causing tension in the area anyway, and with some of the hot takes on this thread(not by you) they would have been blamed for still being there regardless.

I can't see anywhere that Thatsjustwhatithink has said the exit strategy of being done well, it's a shit show that is solely on Biden, but you seem to take offence on them agreeing with Biden that the US should no longer be there.

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 19:25

And they do grow poppy in kabul. Weird

Justanotherlurker · 17/08/2021 19:34

And they do grow poppy in kabul. Weird

If your talking in the sense that your small time UK dealer grows weed in their attic then of course they do, there isn't huge poppy farms on the outskirts of Kabul.

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 19:39

No, there are hundreds of hectares of opium farms in kabul. Is there another definition of growing poppies?

Justanotherlurker · 17/08/2021 19:48

No, there are hundreds of hectares of opium farms in kabul. Is there another definition of growing poppies?

OK I stand corrected, where do you find out this info?

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 19:49

@Justanotherlurker

Just because you say you are an active solider - doesn't mean you are. Just because you say I can't comment because I've never been doesn't mean I will. Because I will do. As will plenty others. You can't bully people of threads

To be fair, you have inflamed the situation because their stance is different to yours, there are many documentaries and column inches over the years from active and former military personal that said they didn't want to be there and it was a wasted excercise/could see the taliban taking back control as soon as they left, told to ignore the open raping of young boys by the Afgan military and police because of racial tensions etc etc, if that was this year or in 10 years time it was always a poisened chalice.

It is easy for someone not involved to say 'someone else' should have done more, inevitbly just like under Trump and Obama the military brass have decided they are not there for nation building, could they have made a better exit, definetly, is it all Bidens fault, no, if people want to blame Trump then the blame also goes back to Obama. There was always going to be point where they had to leave as it was just causing tension in the area anyway, and with some of the hot takes on this thread(not by you) they would have been blamed for still being there regardless.

I can't see anywhere that Thatsjustwhatithink has said the exit strategy of being done well, it's a shit show that is solely on Biden, but you seem to take offence on them agreeing with Biden that the US should no longer be there.

How have I inflamed the situation? I am allowed to have an opinion on what I can see unfolding in front of my eyes. I can make an opinion on what I hear from ex and current service men who are verified. They felt is was disastrous.

Every one is allowed an opinion, you can't just turn up to a thread, start claiming you was once there and tell people to not comment if they have never been to a place and expect people to just swallow what you say. I also havnt chased some one through a thread making stuff up about them when they wouldn't STFU.

I couldn't give a flying fuck about any of the US presidents. The US should have stayed to fix the fuck up they had a massive hand in causing - that's just my opinion. Ive not offended at anything anyone has said on this thread. Every one is allowed an opinion but if people @ me , I will respond - with my opinion or my answer to a questions I was repeatedly asked.

But that's just my opinion, its similar to many people on here. Just like there are different opinions by other people.

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 19:59

Ive been there and seen data on cultivation. Around 400 hetares from memory.

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 20:01

Info and graph here. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7663204.stm

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 17/08/2021 20:04

How have I inflamed the situation? I am allowed to have an opinion on what I can see unfolding in front of my eyes. I can make an opinion on what I hear from ex and current service men who are verified. They felt is was disastrous.

You have been rude to everyone holding a different opinion. That's how.

aquashiv · 17/08/2021 20:05

What about the bastards who fund the Taliban and why do some more research op

lllllllllll · 17/08/2021 20:08

Interesting. Why is it?
It was fast. Lots of people tried to flee.
However, the takeover by the Taliban was largely peaceful. And it was inevitable

@Lweji what an unbelievably callous, ignorant comment.

Someone posted on the other thread that a woman had her eyes gouged out in front of her children. There are other reports of girls as young as 12 being forced into slavery and marriage, consigned to a life of rape and abuse. Largely peaceful?! Is it hell.