To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

[Aspiringmatriarch]

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

Well you clearly don’t care if open conflict happens. Why not?*

Of course I care! The point I'm making is there wouldn't have been any open conflict if the troops had stayed in Afghanistan.

@lllllllllll

Well you clearly don’t care if open conflict happens. Why not?*

Of course I care! The point I'm making is there wouldn't have been any open conflict if the troops had stayed in Afghanistan.

How can you say this with certainty when Biden said there would be?

I can't actually believe people are defending this decision, it's sickening.

Just leave all those women and children to their fate because hey, they're in a faraway country and it doesn't impact on you. Well, you might think differently when Afghanistan becomes a training ground for the next wave of terrorists who then head west.

@lllllllllll

I can't actually believe people are defending this decision, it's sickening.

Just leave all those women and children to their fate because hey, they're in a faraway country and it doesn't impact on you. Well, you might think differently when Afghanistan becomes a training ground for the next wave of terrorists who then head west.

Oh no answer on why you know open conflict won’t happen

You don’t want it so that’s enough

So resort to posts like this. Think about more than insults and what would happen in reality

How can you say this with certainty when Biden said there would be?

Yes, and Biden also said this a month ago:

“There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan,” he said in July. “The likelihood there’s going to be one unified government in Afghanistan controlling the whole country is highly unlikely.”

apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-5934ef05b0094d0189b5d900d2380179

Nice try at namecalling, UsedUpUsername, but misapplied, as anyone who read my first post in that series can see.

I'm absolutely critical of the current president for this.

This thread title, however, and many of the posts on it, are trying to claim that somehow this isn't a Trump's mess. It is.

There is no shortage of blame to go round (nor does it stop at the two most recent presidents).

For those who want a hero... Trump isn't going to be one.

Just because Biden isn't Trump doesn't mean he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions

I absolutely agree, lllllllllll.

It's one of the reasons the outright lies about Biden, like that mendacious post above pretending he was talking about his own mum, are dangerous.

The constant barrage of lies distracts from dealing with the actually true stuff, that does need to be taken seriously. Also, people who constantly cry wolf don't get believed if they ever do have anything true to say.

It's also really dangerous because the people covering up for Trump aren't doing it to protect his hurty feelings; they're doing it to try to present him as a future hero president to "rescue" them.

He won't.

@lllllllllll

I can't actually believe people are defending this decision, it's sickening.

Just leave all those women and children to their fate because hey, they're in a faraway country and it doesn't impact on you. Well, you might think differently when Afghanistan becomes a training ground for the next wave of terrorists who then head west.

I think there is a pretty clear reason why people are defending this. I'm sure however that those people are going to start rejecting the fact we are now going to have to offer these people sanctuary. And so we should.

How can you say this with certainty when Biden said there would be?

Well, since 2015, the Afghan army and police have held the Taliban at bay, little or no UK/US troops fighting.

So thats 6 years of almost no open conflict involving allied forces.

Lets look at what has happened in recent weeks to upset this status quo? - the US announce they will leave, collapse in Afghan forces moral, Taliban take control - now at their mercy if we can get out 1000s of westerners, afghans left to their fate/

all it will take is a rogue Taliban fighter with a ground to air missile to bring down a plane & 1000s of allied troops will pour back in, with 100s of deaths.

Its a disaster and totally avoidable, yes there is an argument to leave but like this????? really!

You’re not wrong. Every single US president since Carter has contributed to this appalling disaster, and it’s not just the US either.

To suggest that Trump did not cause this is simply incorrect. If that makes me partisan, then that’s what I am. Do posters really think that Trump gave a rat’s arse about the fate of the Afghan people when he praised the Taliban?

@PerkingFaintly

Just because Biden isn't Trump doesn't mean he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions

I absolutely agree, lllllllllll.

It's one of the reasons the outright lies about Biden, like that mendacious post above pretending he was talking about his own mum, are dangerous.

The constant barrage of lies distracts from dealing with the actually true stuff, that does need to be taken seriously. Also, people who constantly cry wolf don't get believed if they ever do have anything true to say.

It's also really dangerous because the people covering up for Trump aren't doing it to protect his hurty feelings; they're doing it to try to present him as a future hero president to "rescue" them.

He won't.

Yes I agree with this. Today was the first time I heard about him going back to presidency with credibility. Im no Trump or Biden fan, its like choosing which off prawn sandwich you have to eat. Trump set the deal up with the Taliban, Biden executed. Both as bad as each other.

Well, since 2015, the Afghan army and police have held the Taliban at bay, little or no UK/US troops fighting.

So thats 6 years of almost no open conflict involving allied forces.

Lets look at what has happened in recent weeks to upset this status quo? - the US announce they will leave, collapse in Afghan forces moral, Taliban take control - now at their mercy if we can get out 1000s of westerners, afghans left to their fate/

all it will take is a rogue Taliban fighter with a ground to air missile to bring down a plane & 1000s of allied troops will pour back in, with 100s of deaths.

Its a disaster and totally avoidable, yes there is an argument to leave but like this????? really!

Exactly @jasjas1973! Couldn't agree more.

Pps on this thread should read this:
www.cnbc.com/2021/08/16/how-afghanistan-fell-to-the-taliban-so-quickly.html

And look at the map for a reality check. As far back as April the Afghan government controlled very little of the country.
When your opponents are everywhere in plain clothes, you cannot control the country. As simple as.

So thats 6 years of almost no open conflict involving allied forces.

Ok you think Biden has got it wrong.

I’d say no one on here can be so sure.

Also 1000s were evacuated in preparation

More taken out now

We’d still see fleeing wherever they left - at airports etc as it would be swift

So thats 6 years of almost no open conflict involving allied forces.

Yes, because it didn't suit the Taliban to engage in open conflict. They followed a much more clever strategy.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/17/china-will-tread-carefully-in-navigating-the-talibans-return
"On 28 July, China invited a high-level Taliban delegation to a meeting with the foreign minister, Wang Yi. Curiously, however, the following day, the Chinese embassy in Kabul urged its citizens to leave the country as soon as possible."

This was last year:
www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/politics/russia-afghanistan-bounties.html
"Russia Secretly Offered Afghan Militants Bounties to Kill U.S. Troops, Intelligence Says"

Now:
edition.cnn.com/2021/08/16/world/taliban-russia-putin-analysis-intl/index.html
"Outreach to the Taliban pays dividends to Putin"

www.reuters.com/world/russia-says-kabul-seems-safer-under-taliban-than-it-was-under-ghani-2021-08-16/
"Russia says Kabul seems safer under Taliban than it was under Ghani"

Nice try at namecalling, UsedUpUsername, but misapplied, as anyone who read my first post in that series can see

It’s not namecalling when it’s true.

I'm absolutely critical of the current president for this

Yet you devote several posts as to why this was Trump’s fault.

This thread title, however, and many of the posts on it, are trying to claim that somehow this isn't a Trump's mess. It is

That’s where you’d be wrong.

Why didn’t Biden get visas sorted? Why didn’t he secure the airport as reports that the Taliban were advancing? Why did the Taliban advance so quickly in the first place?

It wasn’t a done deal, it’s really disingenuous to say this was Trump’s deal when Biden’s team had been negotiating this whole time with Taliban reps in Qatar:

www.vox.com/platform/amp/2021/3/8/22319420/afghanistan-blinken-letter-leak-peace-plan

Key point in that article is that the State Department pointedly said that ‘all options were on the table’.

They could have left the table at any time if they thought the Taliban wouldn’t hold up their end of the deal or if they thought there was a possibility (expressed in media by unnamed sources, but they were there) that the Afghan army wasn’t capable.

Those ‘details’ were being worked out with the Taliban over the last few months. Frankly, they failed. We don’t really know exactly why as of yet.

But signs of trouble were there:

Earlier in the week, Taliban spokesman Suhail Shaheen told the BBC that the group was not responsible for the recent increase in violence. He insisted that many districts had fallen to the Taliban through mediation after Afghan soldiers refused to fight

This is from July 24. Already signs that the Afghan army weren’t willing to fight for whatever reason.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57770436.amp

It's not that he's withdrawing troops but the manner in which it was done. It's the execution of the plan which has been in place for a long time

It's also really dangerous because the people covering up for Trump aren't doing it to protect his hurty feelings; they're doing it to try to present him as a future hero president to "rescue" them

Lol most of us have actually moved onto Ron DeSantis.

Typical. You are still fighting the last battle.

You should ask yourself why Biden’s team failed so spectacularly. We have at least three more years of this, so I’d kind of like some more self-reflection on their part

From the POTUS Instagram.

Ok you think Biden has got it wrong.

I’d say no one on here can be so sure.

@MarshaBradyo Just watch the video of the desperate men falling to their deaths from planes. Read the reports of women and girls being made to give up their jobs, being raped, beaten and forced into slavery and marriage. Look at the awful scenes at Kabul Airport, the terrified families trying to get away. Of course we can be f*ing sure!!

@lllllllllll

Ok you think Biden has got it wrong.

I’d say no one on here can be so sure.

*@MarshaBradyo Just watch the video of the desperate men falling to their deaths from planes. Read the reports of women and girls being made to give up their jobs, being raped, beaten and forced into slavery and marriage. Look at the awful scenes at Kabul Airport, the terrified families trying to get away. Of course we can be f**ing sure!!

No you can’t

I meant about open conflict,

Mners stating he’s wrong.

Also whenever they left you’d get these scenes, so you have to stay for how long - decades?

You didn’t say what you meant by staying until it was ‘finishing’. What does it mean?

Also whenever they left you’d get these scenes, so you have to stay for how long - decades?

They got caught with their pants down, which is why they couldn’t even secure one fucking runway at the only airport in town.

@lllllllllll

Ok you think Biden has got it wrong.

I’d say no one on here can be so sure.

*@MarshaBradyo Just watch the video of the desperate men falling to their deaths from planes. Read the reports of women and girls being made to give up their jobs, being raped, beaten and forced into slavery and marriage. Look at the awful scenes at Kabul Airport, the terrified families trying to get away. Of course we can be f**ing sure!!

Your flogging a dead with Marsha - they don't give two fucks.

@UsedUpUsername

Also whenever they left you’d get these scenes, so you have to stay for how long - decades?

They got caught with their pants down, which is why they couldn’t even secure one fucking runway at the only airport in town.

So you think no one would try to flee - You wouldn’t get scenes around whatever perimeter there was?

And yes it was swifter than they thought but how would you suggest that swiftness was stopped?