To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

[Aspiringmatriarch]

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

I can only imagine how Trump would have been handing the current situation in Afghanistan though. If people really think he would have handled this better than Biden, they are wrong.

I'm not sure it could have been handled much worse TBH. It's a total disaster.

Fuck the women who were teachers, doctors, scientists, workers. They all have to hide now in fear for their lives. Fuck the LGBT community - they will all be murdered. Fuck the 12 year old girls already being told to be gathered upon for marriage. Fuck that hard core terrorists were recently released for prison.

It's absolutely heart-breaking. I expected better from Biden.

Migrate illegally? They are asylum seekers. They are legally entitled to seek asylum in the US. They were illegally treated by the US though

Those are economic migrants.

These Afghans rushing the airport are refugees.

Learn the difference.

Er so you think trump had nothing to do with what’s happening now?

I agree. People need to consider the agreement already in place and what it would mean if not adhered to.

'Fuck the women who were teachers, doctors, scientists, workers. They all have to hide now in fear for their lives. Fuck the LGBT community - they will all be murdered. Fuck the 12 year old girls already being told to be gathered upon for marriage. Fuck that hard core terrorists were recently released for prison.'

Tbh that extremist ideology is widespread in the Middle East. You do know Saudi, Iraq and Iran are pretty similar regarding sharia law?

Instead of focusing on Afghanistan more needs to be done to address the brutal and archaic ideology behind sharia law imo. At the moment it seems to be this US and allies versus the taliban mentality and as we know the taliban have won. Countries like Saudi need to form coalitions with other Middle Eastern countries and start living in the 21st century specifically regarding women's rights, gay rights but human rights generally.

God the Trump apologists are disgusting.

I'm angry enough seeing this horror – but instead of focussing on the current situation, the internet is crawling with people who see it as an opportunity for political point scoring and have nakedly partisan selective memory.

Biden will carry his part in the responsibility for this.

And, so will Trump. Yes, Trump did do this.

29 Feb 2020:
Afghan conflict: Trump hails deal with Taliban to end 18-year war
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51692546

Speaking at the White House, Mr Trump congratulated Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Defense Secretary Mark Esper and "the people of the United States for having spent so much in terms of blood, in terms of treasure, and treasury."
He said the Taliban had been trying to reach an agreement with the US for a long time, and that he had faith in the deal because "everyone is tired of war."
[…]
In addition to withdrawing US and allied troops, the deal also provides for a prisoner swap. Some 5,000 Taliban prisoners and 1,000 Afghan security force prisoners would be exchanged by 10 March, when talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government are due to start.
[...]
In Kabul, activist Zahra Husseini said she feared the deal could worsen the situation for women in Afghanistan. "I don't trust the Taliban, and remember how they suppressed women when they were ruling," the 28-year-old told AFP. "Today is a dark day, and as I was watching the deal being signed, I had this bad feeling that it would result in their return to power rather than in peace."

4 Mar 2020

In historic call, Trump speaks to Taliban leader amid concerns about deal with US
It's the first call between an American president and the militant group.
[abcnews.go.com/Politics/historic-call-trump-speaks-taliban-leader-amid-concerns/story?id=69366059

President Donald Trump spoke to its co-founder and senior leader in a historic call -- the first known conversation between an American president and the militant group that harbored the al Qaeda operatives responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks.
[...]
Trump spoke to Abdul Ghani Baradar, who serves as the group's chief negotiator and also goes by Mullah Baradar, according to the militant group's spokesperson, who said the call lasted 35 minutes. Afterward, he told reporters that his "relationship" with Baradar is "very good ... we had a good, long conversation today, and, you know, they want to cease the violence. They'd like to cease violence also."

That's not true. On Monday, the group's spokesperson said attacks would resume on Afghan government forces but not U.S. forces, and Monday into Tuesday, there were 33 attacks in 16 provinces, killing six people and wounding 14

8 Oct 2020

Taliban cheer Trump tweet promising early troop withdrawal
The Afghan Taliban are welcoming a tweet from President Donald Trump in which he promised to have the last of U.S. troops out of Afghanistan by Christmas
abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/taliban-trump-tweet-promising-early-troop-withdrawal-73497959

If that withdrawal happens, it would be months ahead of schedule and the tweet made no reference to a Taliban promise to fight terrorist groups — a previous pre-requisite for an American withdrawal.
[…]
Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahed said Trump's statement was welcome and he considered it a positive step for the implementation of the peace agreement between the U.S. and the Taliban.

16 Nov 2020 (after Trump had lost the election)

Trump 'to order further troop withdrawal' from Afghanistan and Iraq
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54968200

The US military expects President Donald Trump to order a further withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan and Iraq, according to defence officials quoted by US media.
Those in Afghanistan will be cut from about 5,000 down to 2,500 by mid-January, officials said. In Iraq they will be reduced from 3,000 to 2,500.
[...]
But Mr Trump's reported plan is facing rare criticism from a fellow Republican - Senate leader Mitch McConnell, who warned militants would "love" the idea.

26th June 2021, just a few weeks ago, video of Trump speaking in Ohio:

twitter.com/thehill/status/1408961230967087105?s=20

“I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. Twenty-one years is enough, don't we think? Twenty-one years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process when other things were... Yeah, thank you.

”It's a shame. Twenty-one years by a government that wouldn't last. The only way they last is if we're there. What are we gonna say? We'll stay for another twenty-one years, then we'll stay for another fifty? The whole thing is ridiculous."

The Republican National Committee webpage even bragged about Trump’s deal with the Taliban. Well, it did up until Sunday, when they suddenly removed the page.

Their attempts at rewriting history are easily shown up by the archived page.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210615230810/gop.com/president-trump-is-bringing-peace-to-the-middle-east-rsr/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210615230810/gop.com/president-trump-is-bringing-peace-to-the-middle-east-rsr/

Prisoners released by trump's orders are now 2nd and 3rd in the taliban hierarchy

I agree. People need to consider the agreement already in place and what it would mean if not adhered to.

Biden had ample time to reverse the decision. From this article though it sounds like he has long been pro-withdrawal:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58224399

[quote lllllllllll]I agree. People need to consider the agreement already in place and what it would mean if not adhered to.

Biden had ample time to reverse the decision. From this article though it sounds like he has long been pro-withdrawal:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58224399[/quote]
What would have been the outcome of the reversal?

I appreciate not everyone on this thread knew Trump had done this.

Unsurprising, when his Republican party has been trying to deceive you.

But despite their best efforts, you now know.

What would have been the outcome of the reversal?

Well, the Americans would have stayed in Afghanistan and it would still be a (relatively) stable country. I know many people are anti having troops on the ground in a faraway country, BUT they started this, they need to finish it.

@lllllllllll

What would have been the outcome of the reversal?

Well, the Americans would have stayed in Afghanistan and it would still be a (relatively) stable country. I know many people are anti having troops on the ground in a faraway country, BUT they started this, they need to finish it.

You don’t think the Taliban would have reacted to an agreement being overturned?

Open conflict as Biden said. You may disagree with him but given how quickly they mobilised and took over I’d say they were in a strong position

Oh and what do you mean by ‘finish it’?

@PerkingFaintly

Not sure you’ve noticed, but Trump isn’t president anymore. This is on the sitting president, who executed this extremely poorly.

I always wanted to leave Afghanistan, tbh. I’ve hated this war since GWB and have had several relatives fighting in this war. The war will never leave them.

But this wasn’t the way to leave. It’s disrespectful of the soldiers who fought and the locals who supported them.

Maybe it’s not completely Biden’s fault. Maybe he got bad intel or the Pentagon lied to him, and we’ll know in the fullness of time.

But it’s hard to think of a worse way to have done this.

@PerkingFaintly

And if you weren’t such a blind partisan, you’d see this too.

You don’t think the Taliban would have reacted to an agreement being overturned?

Does anyone really give a shit? I don't believe they would have tried to take over Afghanistan again if American troops were still on the ground - they're well aware they wouldn't have stood a chance.

@lllllllllll

You don’t think the Taliban would have reacted to an agreement being overturned?

Does anyone really give a shit? I don't believe they would have tried to take over Afghanistan again if American troops were still on the ground - they're well aware they wouldn't have stood a chance.

Well you clearly don’t care if open conflict happens. Why not?

An odd stance to take.

Thank you @PerkingFaintly. People have very short memories.

And if you weren’t such a blind partisan, you’d see this too.

Yes, as someone else said earlier in the thread, some people just can't see past "Orange Man Bad, new president good". It really is that black and white for them. Just because Biden isn't Trump doesn't mean he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions - and this is a major fuck-up.

@Gremlinsateit

Thank you *@PerkingFaintly*. People have very short memories.

Agree.