To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

[Aspiringmatriarch]

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

And why did the taliban take over? Because the army laid down their weapons, and they knew that, they just didn't expect it to happen quite so quickly.

Because they were not being fed, paid and had all their recourses taken. These men were not cowards and Biden is disgusting for implementing they were. They had to leave because they had nothing.

But the focus shouldn't be on the Afghanistan army - that is a cop out. the focus should be that his should have been a massive world humanitarian effort. These people are about to be murdered. We have just allowed one of the worlds worst terror groups to become legitimate.

Their President left quickly too

I’ve heard more courage from females on radio saying why they wouldn’t flee

If the alternative was open conflict for more decades - is that preferable to those who want to stay?

@MarshaBradyo

Their President left quickly too

I’ve heard more courage from females on radio saying why they wouldn’t flee

If the alternative was open conflict for more decades - is that preferable to those who want to stay?

What are you talking about 'those who wanted to stay? Have you not been watching the news where people are painting over images of women out side their shops so they don't get slaughtered, or crowds running down the streets or people climbing in top of moving airplanes trying to escape?

When the worlds superpower power just fucks off one night with out warning - yes I image all the blokes in power flee - leaving all the civilians behind. They are all fucked.

There was a verified video of the Taliban on the dodgems 'having a fun time' - sickening really when people are literally falling from their deaths trying to escape them.

Are the Taliban better clothed and fed? Or are they just fighting for something they believe in?

Did the regular army believe in the rights of women and LGTB and scientists and doctors? No they didn't. Neither did the government.

You should listen to the radio Steak you’ll here more than just see images.

Yesterday about three women saying why they wouldn’t try to flee. Very brave.

An no the President leaving doesn’t help.

But back to the question - open conflict yes or no?

If the Taliban did this in a week do you think they would take reversal of agreement easily?

Hear - here

Separating children from families at the border, causing lasting damage?

Nobody is forcing people to migrate illegally. Parents are fully responsible for this, not a state that is trying to enforce border control (as they should). Stop weaponising children to score political points

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Are the Taliban better clothed and fed? Or are they just fighting for something they believe in?

Did the regular army believe in the rights of women and LGTB and scientists and doctors? No they didn't. Neither did the government.

Yes they did! Afganistan had changed massively over the past few decades. Women were allowed to teach, be doctors and work.

Are you honestly sating the Taliban deserved to get in because they believed in it more? WTF?

Chardonnay for some reason you are focusing on the Army, look past that - if you are capable of it.

@MarshaBradyo

You should listen to the radio Steak you’ll here more than just see images.

Yesterday about three women saying why they wouldn’t try to flee. Very brave.

An no the President leaving doesn’t help.

But back to the question - open conflict yes or no?

If the Taliban did this in a week do you think they would take reversal of agreement easily?

Yes if open conflict is needed then then they stay. Why are the people of Afghanistan's lives not worth it? I'd say your three women who wanted to stay ( And im pretty sure they wasn't over the moon with it) will grossly be engulfed by the many many thousands who are in fear for their lives.

And no need for the sarcastic comments to engage in conversation. I watched several live interviews through out the course of the day and this morning. Listening to radio doesn't make you superior.

Are you honestly sating the Taliban deserved to get in because they believed in it more? WTF?

I'm not saying they deserved which a very odd choice of word, I'm saying that's why they win.

As for focusing on the army, and the government, well, that's what their role was, but they are far too misogynistic themselves to do it.

Maybe you should look past finding excuses for that, if you can look past it, which I hope you are capable of.

Yes, it was a terrible decision on Biden's part. I didn't expect it but then again he's not done very much so far. I think he's shown his true colours.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Are you honestly sating the Taliban deserved to get in because they believed in it more? WTF?

I'm not saying they deserved which a very odd choice of word, I'm saying that's why they win.

As for focusing on the army, and the government, well, that's what their role was, but they are far too misogynistic themselves to do it.

Maybe you should look past finding excuses for that, if you can look past it, which I hope you are capable of.

Finding excuses? Like not actually eating and having no AirPower and not enough weapons?

The focus should be on that the main force which was holding the Taliban off up and left over night with no warning. Which allowed the Taliban to roar across and take hold quickly with no warning. Shame on you if you think this is ok.

Yes if open conflict is needed then then they stay. Why are the people of Afghanistan's lives not worth it?

So many more lives lost. If we had scenes of carnage and fighting for more decades I doubt people would be fine with that. Maybe some on here if they say so but not everyone.

As for radio, I didn’t say it was superior but as you suggested I’m not following news I corrected you - and also you do get some good insight from it which print / tv doesn’t always capture.

Afghan people can fight when they want to fight.

I have family in Russia, I had friends and family sent there in the Eighties.

Ok - so service men talking live about their experience on TV and their feelings isn't the same as listening to them on the radio. Whats not being captured ? Should I close my eyes and pretend its the radio?

I see that that there are plans to evacuate afghan women and children out of the country - good! I hope the UK will do their best to accommodate them here.

@Steakandcheeseplease

Ok - so service men talking live about their experience on TV and their feelings isn't the same as listening to them on the radio. Whats not being captured ? Should I close my eyes and pretend its the radio?

I see that that there are plans to evacuate afghan women and children out of the country - good! I hope the UK will do their best to accommodate them here.

Did you only hear men?

Mostly men at the airport too.

Where are the stories of women in news / images

I was surprised to hear their view, but thought it good to have

@Gremlinsateit

Since this horrible situation is the direct result of Trump’s latest empowering of the Taliban and W’s initial invasion on the pretext of 9/11, and the indirect result of the US’s empowerment of the mujahideen under Carter, Reagan and friends, following a century’s catastrophic interference in Afghanistan kicked off by the UK, I would have to disagree.

FFS, Trump let tens of thousands of US citizens die of COVID for shits and giggles. He withdrew from the Paris agreement, attacked the ACA, supported and encouraged racist murderers, gave credibility to the atrocious North Korean regime, used taxpayer funds for personal purposes, implemented regressive tax regulation, removed (scant) protections for immigrants, and encouraged insurrection. Oh and encouraged foreign interference in the election process, but her emails!

Only trolls, bots and their suckers could think that Biden is worse.

No one serious actually thinks any of this is in the same league as of what just happened.

You are a naked partisan

But this didn’t “just” happen. Trump negotiated the final withdrawal with the Taliban, thereby giving them power and credibility - as well as continuing longstanding US policies of stuffing up the Middle East deluxe then withdrawing when domestic support dried up. Yes, Biden didn’t reverse it, and his remarks about the Afghan army are mendacious, but in the context of Trump’s outrages that is very, very far from making him worse than Trump.

The UK has its own behaviour to examine as does my Australia which sent soldiers to Afghanistan to continue its policy of sucking up to the US and the UK, then decorated and feted soldiers who were war criminals.

the context of Trump’s outrages that is very, very far from making him worse than Trump

Trump’s ‘outrages’ such as they were never led to ordinary people literally falling off airplanes to escape an advancing army

As Obama presciently said, never underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up

Those scenes when people stormed Capitol and all the fighting / collapse in cities was pretty real though

Ok, I see what you mean - I thought you were referring to the withdrawal rather than the specific horrors. I share your distress and outrage but disagree with you about the cause.

@UsedUpUsername

the context of Trump’s outrages that is very, very far from making him worse than Trump

Trump’s ‘outrages’ such as they were never led to ordinary people literally falling off airplanes to escape an advancing army

As Obama presciently said, never underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up

Er so you think trump had nothing to do with what’s happening now?

Please do make the time to read about it.

Nobody is forcing people to migrate illegally. Parents are fully responsible for this, not a state that is trying to enforce border control (as they should). Stop weaponising children to score political points

Migrate illegally? They are asylum seekers. They are legally entitled to seek asylum in the US. They were illegally treated by the US though.

I can only imagine how Trump would have been handing the current situation in Afghanistan though. If people really think he would have handled this better than Biden, they are wrong.

The worst thing that trump did was the policy which resulting in children being separated from their parents at the border (no, Obama did not do this), and those children may never be reunited again. That made me feel sick at the time and still does now.

@Iggly And what about the thousands of children in Afghanistan who will now be forced into slavery and forced marriages, who will be suffering all kinds of horrors, abuse and death? Guess what, they won't be reunited with their parents either.