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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
MariposaLilly · 17/08/2021 02:18

As a United States Senator Joe Biden voted for the Gulf War in 2002 and support the initial invasion of Afghanistan.

Trump was against the war/invasion from the start and he even verbally attacked Candidate Jeb Bush for his brothers war during the 2016 GOP Presidential debates. That's what won me over. I've been a Trump voter ever since.

Biden is dangerous.

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 02:29

I'll ask again. Where is the report that 60,000 ANA died in this offensive?

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 02:37

Maybe America should stop voting in right wing imperialists then?wtf is even different about the parties to choose from? Conservative late stage capitalism is destroying the environment and society

Proudboomer · 17/08/2021 02:45

@BrozTito

I'll ask again. Where is the report that 60,000 ANA died in this offensive?
This might be an overall figure for the last 20 years

www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210706-the-war-in-afghanistan-by-the-numbers

The Afghan government no longer publishes data for losses within its army, which are significant, but President Ashraf Ghani in 2019 said more than 45,000 members of the country's security forces have been killed since 2014, when he became leader.

The loses in this offensive have been very minor as the army has just melted away along with Ghani

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 03:04

Yeah that seems more likely. Its long been noted that government armies in the middle east/central asia are atrocious. Same thing happened wihth new iraq army and the ISIS offensive. I read a brilliant book about it il have to remember its name to recommend it.

SmokedDuck · 17/08/2021 03:32

The leftish media in general was crazy about making Trump out to be a horror. The man was personally awful and I'm not sure how much he actually had to do with running the country, but his presidency was a mixed bag and not so much worse than others. Many of the things he was criticized for were the same things that have been done by other presidents.

Biden on the other hand seems to simply do everything the Democrat party elite would like him to without any question.

Shanghaisprize · 17/08/2021 03:59

The leftish media in general was crazy about making Trump out to be a horror

They never really had to. He showed people exactly who he was by his appalling actions, behaviour and manner.

MoonlightWanderer · 17/08/2021 06:10

You only had to read Trump’s Twitter to see exactly what kind of man he was. All this Trump wasn’t so bad talk is very disturbing. The last thing anyone needs is Trump back in power at the next election. Even most of his own party wanted him out. Biden is a different issue. I’m not a huge fan of his but to say he is a worse president than Trump is just crazy. I think people can criticize his actions without bringing Trump into it.

Iggly · 17/08/2021 06:47

@SmokedDuck

The leftish media in general was crazy about making Trump out to be a horror. The man was personally awful and I'm not sure how much he actually had to do with running the country, but his presidency was a mixed bag and not so much worse than others. Many of the things he was criticized for were the same things that have been done by other presidents.

Biden on the other hand seems to simply do everything the Democrat party elite would like him to without any question.

Jeez the Trump apologists out in force.
lllllllllll · 17/08/2021 07:40

I’m not a huge fan of his but to say he is a worse president than Trump is just crazy.

To be honest though I’m struggling to think of anything Trump did that was worse than this appalling, chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan. Can you name something?

carltonscroop · 17/08/2021 07:45

Trump stood for so much that was loathsome

But he didn't really cause the damage that was expected of him, and little was irreversible (thinking of climate change here)

And certainly not like this

I think it's naive to ignore how badly Biden is coming out in comparison right now, and how much he will have to do to regain

Iggly · 17/08/2021 07:47

@carltonscroop

Trump stood for so much that was loathsome

But he didn't really cause the damage that was expected of him, and little was irreversible (thinking of climate change here)

And certainly not like this

I think it's naive to ignore how badly Biden is coming out in comparison right now, and how much he will have to do to regain

Er ok. Have you missed covid? Separating children from families at the border, causing lasting damage?

Plus he held talks with the Taliban….. fucking hell.

Iggly · 17/08/2021 07:49

@lllllllllll

I’m not a huge fan of his but to say he is a worse president than Trump is just crazy.

To be honest though I’m struggling to think of anything Trump did that was worse than this appalling, chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan. Can you name something?

Trump set it in motion. He set a deadline for April I recall then Biden extended it. Trump sought to negotiate with the Taliban.

Trump cosied up to the likes of Arab countries to get them to make peace with Israel. Countries which carry out terrible atrocities on a daily basis, we just don’t see them in the news.

The worst thing that trump did was the policy which resulting in children being separated from their parents at the border (no, Obama did not do this), and those children may never be reunited again. That made me feel sick at the time and still does now.

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 07:54

The Afghans wouldn't fight against the Taliban

This is unfair. There was an ex SAS solider who was stationed in Afghanistan for years on the news last night who said they were not being fed, not being paid and had all their resources taken away. He said they were defiantly not cowards but fled because they had nothing to fight back with. In ALL the news clips I watched, retired generals, service men who had terrible injuries, SAS all said it was a slap in the face to the service men and catastrophic to the people who are still there and leaves the west in certain danger from the terrorists pooling and starting all over again. We are literally back to square one.

I can't believe people are still condoning this.

Balonzette · 17/08/2021 08:01

YANBU. It's awful.

jasjas1973 · 17/08/2021 08:07

@Steakandcheeseplease

The Afghans wouldn't fight against the Taliban

This is unfair. There was an ex SAS solider who was stationed in Afghanistan for years on the news last night who said they were not being fed, not being paid and had all their resources taken away. He said they were defiantly not cowards but fled because they had nothing to fight back with. In ALL the news clips I watched, retired generals, service men who had terrible injuries, SAS all said it was a slap in the face to the service men and catastrophic to the people who are still there and leaves the west in certain danger from the terrorists pooling and starting all over again. We are literally back to square one.

I can't believe people are still condoning this.

Yes i find this from people who don't know one end of a gun from the other distasteful - inc from Biden & who haven't bothered to check before stating this as a fact.

66k afghan army and police died fighting the taliban, their moral, understandably, collapsed when they saw the US pull out so suddenly, which left them on their own.

It should also be remembered that UK forces could not hold Helmand, despite having the numbers and the support from the US, so expect miracles from a relatively new army, who cannot get on a plane and fly back to safety, ooos of miles from Afghan.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 17/08/2021 08:13

Yes i find this from people who don't know one end of a gun from the other distasteful - inc from Biden & who haven't bothered to check before stating this as a fact.

Yes, I'm sure Biden has no idea what he's talking about and no one to present him with facts when he's addressing the nation, it's not like he's someone with access to all sort of intelligence. Oh no.

Gremlinsateit · 17/08/2021 08:23

Since this horrible situation is the direct result of Trump’s latest empowering of the Taliban and W’s initial invasion on the pretext of 9/11, and the indirect result of the US’s empowerment of the mujahideen under Carter, Reagan and friends, following a century’s catastrophic interference in Afghanistan kicked off by the UK, I would have to disagree.

FFS, Trump let tens of thousands of US citizens die of COVID for shits and giggles. He withdrew from the Paris agreement, attacked the ACA, supported and encouraged racist murderers, gave credibility to the atrocious North Korean regime, used taxpayer funds for personal purposes, implemented regressive tax regulation, removed (scant) protections for immigrants, and encouraged insurrection. Oh and encouraged foreign interference in the election process, but her emails!

Only trolls, bots and their suckers could think that Biden is worse.

jasjas1973 · 17/08/2021 08:26

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Yes i find this from people who don't know one end of a gun from the other distasteful - inc from Biden & who haven't bothered to check before stating this as a fact.

Yes, I'm sure Biden has no idea what he's talking about and no one to present him with facts when he's addressing the nation, it's not like he's someone with access to all sort of intelligence. Oh no.

Biden knows the facts, he is just lying.

As to accessing Intelligence? would that be the same info that told him there was no chance the Taliban would take over?

Oh no! lol!

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 17/08/2021 08:28

And why did the taliban take over? Because the army laid down their weapons, and they knew that, they just didn't expect it to happen quite so quickly.

Steakandcheeseplease · 17/08/2021 08:30

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Yes i find this from people who don't know one end of a gun from the other distasteful - inc from Biden & who haven't bothered to check before stating this as a fact.

Yes, I'm sure Biden has no idea what he's talking about and no one to present him with facts when he's addressing the nation, it's not like he's someone with access to all sort of intelligence. Oh no.

Biden has done this purely for mid term election votes. This was a political manoeuvre. The speech he gave was specifically aimed at voters sat at home in their arms chairs. And he put it squarely on the toes of the afghan army basically saying they are cowards. He also stated they planned for every contingency - but not this one... He stated last month ago that the Taliban wouldn't be able to take over Afghanistan so what the fuck happened? Either he is complicit in this shit show or there was a staggeringly bad intelligence failure.

Fuck the women who were teachers, doctors, scientists, workers. They all have to hide now in fear for their lives. Fuck the LGBT community - they will all be murdered. Fuck the 12 year old girls already being told to be gathered upon for marriage. Fuck that hard core terrorists were recently released for prison.

If people seriously think the Taliban will now go quiet and not try and start all over agin with the terror against the west then they grossly wrong. They absolutely have a point to prove now. They just beat the US.

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2021 08:32

If the agreement had been reversed and open conflict had resulted would people be ok with that?

More fighting, send more troops over

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 17/08/2021 08:33

Fuck the women who were teachers, doctors, scientists, workers. They all have to hide now in fear for their lives. Fuck the LGBT community - they will all be murdered. Fuck the 12 year old girls already being told to be gathered upon for marriage. Fuck that hard core terrorists were recently released for prison.

And that's exactly why the Afghan government and the army had to fight for.

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2021 08:35

And that's exactly why the Afghan government and the army had to fight for.

Agree

jasjas1973 · 17/08/2021 08:35

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

And why did the taliban take over? Because the army laid down their weapons, and they knew that, they just didn't expect it to happen quite so quickly.
What would you do if confronted with an enemy that tells you "you will all die if you resist" ? Your ally has gone, surrounded, no chance of re supply, little ammo, no air support.....

As i said, UK forces couldn't hold one small part of Afghanistan.