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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
Selkiesarereal · 16/08/2021 22:21

I am not being goady here but why did they assume that the Afghan army would fight surely they had flawed intelligence?

jasjas1973 · 16/08/2021 22:23

@Cam77

if Afghans wouldn't fight then it's hardly the job of the Americans

Well America seemed to believe it wss their job when they armed the mujahideen and then two decades later invaded the country to the tune of 2 trillion.

I'm going to get this posted as a sticky- 66000 afghan police and soldiers have died fighting the Taliban
paepoyrol · 16/08/2021 22:24

because the army outnumbered & outweaponed (?) the Taliban & I presumed they assumed they would fight as that's what armies do.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 22:24

@Steakandcheeseplease

Poppy season. Something that happens in southern Afghanistan, mostly along the Pakistan border. When the US/UK were fighting there it made a difference. Now there are no troops in that area the poppy season has fuck all to do with Kabul. Combat operations in that area ended in 2014.

If you don't know anything about Afghanistan (which your posts show) don't try and randomly throw in things that you think supports your case. But spare me your armchair theorising, when you have no real life experience to back it up. Have you ever even been there?

If your sad that the Taliban have taken Afghanistan, fine. But just own that that's all really you know about the place. Yes, it sucks for the people of Afghanistan, but at some point the US/UK were going to leave. There was no ideal moment. As the Taliban constantly told us "you have the watches, we have the time".

lannistunut · 16/08/2021 22:25

@Cam77

if Afghans wouldn't fight then it's hardly the job of the Americans

Well America seemed to believe it wss their job when they armed the mujahideen and then two decades later invaded the country to the tune of 2 trillion.

Yes quite - they were doing it for two decades this time! No one forced them to go in the first place.
sunnymoo · 16/08/2021 22:28

@MopaniTree

I read so much criticism of Trump but when it comes down to it, what did he actually do that was materially so awful?

I think Biden comes across as more "Presidential" but in fact his actions in the short time since coming into office have had an awful impact on women's rights and now on Afghanistan.

You are spot on with Trump, the media seemed to have it in for him. From what I understand he brokered many peace agreements, and turned his countries economy around. He seems very patriotic, as all leaders of countries should be.

Biden - what a train wreck, has that guy done any good in the 40+ years he's been in govt, and she seems very creepy around children and women.

JacquelineCarlyle · 16/08/2021 22:35

Sadly YANBU Op - I so wish you were though. The whole thing is a shit show.

mustlovegin · 16/08/2021 23:01

Thank you for your insight @Thatsjustwhatithink

Midge75 · 16/08/2021 23:01

@iusedtobesoooomuchfun - he wasn't talking about his mum. He was talking about the mum of the person on stage with him.

Danja2010 · 16/08/2021 23:07

@Cam77

if Afghans wouldn't fight then it's hardly the job of the Americans

Well America seemed to believe it wss their job when they armed the mujahideen and then two decades later invaded the country to the tune of 2 trillion.

Cam77 : You are brilliant at swearing and that’s about it. Bush and Cheney concocted this war like so many others. The Brits bought in to all the falsified facts. The costs have been enormous like any war and it was time for this to end. No one predicted that the Afghani army wouldn’t fight back. It’s time for Peace and negotiations.
Terhou · 16/08/2021 23:18

You are spot on with Trump, the media seemed to have it in for him. From what I understand he brokered many peace agreements, and turned his countries economy around. He seems very patriotic, as all leaders of countries should be.

Your mistake there is accepting Trump's highly massaged version of the facts. How is it patriotic to cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of your country's citizens?

Marmaladeagain · 16/08/2021 23:40

www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taliban-surge-exposes-failure-us-efforts-build-afghan-army-2021-08-15/

I found Biden’s comments that the Afghan army wouldn’t fight an unpleasant simplistic attempt to tie up events in a bundle to pass responsibility. Attached article is very good and worth a read explains a bit more what it was like and why the army didn’t fight.

Let’s not pretend that a lot of these people appearing to surrender know their own families will be murdered if they fight back. Rather an insult to the thousands of Afghan people that have died fighting the Taliban and hardly the language or diplomacy. Can’t begin to imagine the outrage if Trump stood there saying what Biden has said. Trump a buffoon in so many ways, but just because Biden isn’t Trump doesn’t make his comments ok.

The Taliban have been handed a great recruitment opportunity by Biden dismissing the Afghan people as not willing to fight. If only it were that simple.

Becca8675309 · 16/08/2021 23:41

This has got to be a joke. ANYBODY is better than Trump.

FromEden · 17/08/2021 00:24

Did you ever watch Trump's 'speeches'. Do you ever watch Boris Johnson?

Where did I say that they weren't/aren't also shit? They are. Whats with this weird knee jerk reaction to mention trump anytime someone says anything remotely criticizing Biden lol

Thefellathatrocks · 17/08/2021 00:26

I mean he wears mittens and falls over. I suppose the signs were there.

UsedUpUsername · 17/08/2021 00:45

How is it patriotic to cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of your country's citizens

How many times must it be said that the US COVID death rates are pretty much in line with Western Europe? Pathetic.

Streamside · 17/08/2021 00:48

Biden looked totally dead behind his eyes in that recent interview, it was scary.

MimiDaisy11 · 17/08/2021 00:57

You are spot on with Trump, the media seemed to have it in for him. From what I understand he brokered many peace agreements, and turned his countries economy around. He seems very patriotic, as all leaders of countries should be

“Turned his country’s economy around” implies it was doing badly when he got it. It was good and growing and in fairness continued to grow although he gave tax cuts to companies who largely used the money to buy up their own shares and at the same time he didn’t cut government expenditure. Cutting taxes plus keeping the same expenditure means an increase in the USA’s debt. It’s not something conservatives like and not seen as good for long term economy.

There are so many examples of Biden being better than Trump.
What about the Salisbury poisoning? Trump wasn’t convinced Putin was involved because Putin said he wasn’t. So many times with Putin Trump would say Putin had assured him. No way would Biden ignore his own intelligence agency and the UK over Putin.

Trump was so easily won over if dictators treated him personally well. Look at the Saudis giving him medals or Turkey’s leader and the US pulling out of Syria on a whim.

UsedUpUsername · 17/08/2021 00:57

@Streamside

Biden looked totally dead behind his eyes in that recent interview, it was scary.
Well, yeah, he’s probably pumped full of Adderall and Provigil to make it through pressers
Snugglybuggly · 17/08/2021 01:10

YABU no one is worse than Trump
What is MN going to come out with next

BrozTito · 17/08/2021 01:11

The whole 'you go instead of soldiers' thing is slightly ridiculous. No conscripts in these armies and they signed up for it. UK citizens pay tax and are allowed to speculate on its function and moral issues.

BritWifeInUSA · 17/08/2021 01:24

He’s the worst President we have had in a long time. I knew it would be a total disaster but his fan club wouldn’t listen. This is the shit show they wanted and now they’ve got it. Well done. I hope they’re happy with themselves.

If you think he’s bad from your perspective in the UK, just imagine how bad it is here. But hey! At least there are no more mean tweets.

SunscreenCentral · 17/08/2021 01:37

To be honest, I'd be looking closer to home. My London (Irish) fam are being moved to Europe (Barcelona, but ok).
All of you are pawns now and I'm fascinated to see what puppet show Johnson will create

SunscreenCentral · 17/08/2021 01:41

Absolutely insane love

Proudboomer · 17/08/2021 02:12

You can’t blame Biden as it is pretty clear it is not him that is running the country or making the decisions.
He is like a old carved wooden figure head that has been tied to the bow of the ship. A lucky charm to make the superstitious seamen feel better but otherwise a useless lump of wood.
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