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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

770 replies

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/08/2021 13:45

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
FromEden · 16/08/2021 21:00

Trump took over from Obama and created havoc. Biden is having to sort out the mess.

Are you brainwashed or what? No, this mess is 100% on Biden. He executed the withdrawal in such a way. It could have been a more staggered process if he wanted. Allegedly he ignored advice from military generals who stormed out of a meeting after. It's on him.

samyeagar · 16/08/2021 21:00

@Justanotherlurker

Trump took over from Obama and created havoc. Biden is having to sort out the mess.

You clearly know very little about the situation if you think Biden is having to sort out Trumps mess in Afghanistan.

It's a humanitarian crisis. Biden is President, the buck stops with him, But the circumstances were a poisoned chalice.
Trump was handed a poisoned chalice.
Obama was handed a poisoned chalice.
While they were president, they were ultimately responsible, and all 3 presidents ran a campaign of leaving Afganhistan, trying to frame it as you have shows how very little you actually know about the situation and American politics.

Contrary to what so many world wide think, and how desperately or perhaps lazily they try to do...

Not everything can be boiled down to Orange Man Bad.

UsedUpUsername · 16/08/2021 21:02

And no president in history has been as bad as trump. Under him America got close to civil war

No way u actually believe this.

George W Bush will probably be remembered as the worst. Biden’s just getting started though ... 😬 and nothing Trump has done is on this scale

orinocosfavoritecake · 16/08/2021 21:03

This piece is good: laurajedeed.medium.com/afghanistan-meant-nothing-9e3f099b00e5

Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 21:04

@FromEden

Trump took over from Obama and created havoc. Biden is having to sort out the mess.

Are you brainwashed or what? No, this mess is 100% on Biden. He executed the withdrawal in such a way. It could have been a more staggered process if he wanted. Allegedly he ignored advice from military generals who stormed out of a meeting after. It's on him.

How do you storm out of a meeting afterwards? Genuinely interested.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/08/2021 21:09

@lllllllllll

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57703460

Fruityfriday · 16/08/2021 21:12

This speech is horrific. He doesn't care about the people in Afghanistan. He is a know.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 21:12

Bidens speech right now is very good and very true. Why should we fight a war if the Afghan army aren't prepared to?

To those who say "we should stay"....how long would you stay?

What are your markers for staying? What does success look like? How many of your own soldiers are you prepared to sacrifice? Would you sacrifice yourself or your child? Your partner? How do convince large swathes of the Afghan population to support the government? How do you stop corruption?

In short, answe the questions that Biden is asking of the afghans in his speech right now

Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 21:13

@Fruityfriday

This speech is horrific. He doesn't care about the people in Afghanistan. He is a know.
But you do? What are you doing?
MarshaBradyo · 16/08/2021 21:15

I’m listening. I think his how long do we send out sons / daughters message will resonate with many

Fruityfriday · 16/08/2021 21:15

I'm not the US president it doesn't matter what I think.

MarshaBradyo · 16/08/2021 21:17

What are your markers for staying? What does success look like? How many of your own soldiers are you prepared to sacrifice? Would you sacrifice yourself or your child? Your partner? How do convince large swathes of the Afghan population to support the government? How do you stop corruption?

Agree with asking these questions

Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 21:17

@Fruityfriday

I'm not the US president it doesn't matter what I think.
Nice cop out. If you don't have better ideas why are you shitting on the current plan?
ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 16/08/2021 21:19

@Skiptheheartsandflowers

No, Trump was utterly batshit and dangerous to both his own citizens and people outside the US. But that doesn't mean the events in Afghanistan aren't awful.
Agree, can't believe others on here are asking what did he do that was so bad. Molest children? Condone racism? Incite an attack on the capitol? Let hundreds of thousands die before conceding to the reality of COVID?
Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 21:21

@MarshaBradyo

I’m listening. I think his how long do we send out sons / daughters message will resonate with many
I hope so. I think it will with veteran/diplomatic communities.

But for the general public, these days (in light of social media) you no longer have to do anything or make any sacrifices yourself, you just tell everyone how awful it is and how shit everyone is...but these people never commit themselves, their money or their lives. But always happy to volunteer others. Vitue signally at it's very finest.

Steakandcheeseplease · 16/08/2021 21:22

He could barely read/see the script and stumbling over words. Just embarrassing. He just basically said the whole thing was pointless and they couldn't win against the Taliban. US isn't the superpower it once was. This is going to be the beginning for some very scary times for the west.

It took Japan decades to stabilise and the US are still there in some capacity.

FromEden · 16/08/2021 21:24

He could barely read/see the script and stumbling over words. Just embarrassing.

Yep. He is painful to watch. Literally just read off a script and badly. No emotion in his tone or expressions.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 21:26

@Steakandcheeseplease

He could barely read/see the script and stumbling over words. Just embarrassing. He just basically said the whole thing was pointless and they couldn't win against the Taliban. US isn't the superpower it once was. This is going to be the beginning for some very scary times for the west.

It took Japan decades to stabilise and the US are still there in some capacity.

Listen to the words rather than the presentation. The Taliban have taken Afghanistan because the Afghan army refused to fight.

The US does not have bases in Japan because it's worried about Japan. It's because they are in a strategically important gelocation with regards China and Russia.

tttigress · 16/08/2021 21:27

He was always a strange choice for president, you would have thought the Dems could find one better candidate!

Steakandcheeseplease · 16/08/2021 21:27

@MarshaBradyo

What are your markers for staying? What does success look like? How many of your own soldiers are you prepared to sacrifice? Would you sacrifice yourself or your child? Your partner? How do convince large swathes of the Afghan population to support the government? How do you stop corruption?

Agree with asking these questions

It took decades for Japan to become stable.

What you are falling to see is what comes next.

The presence of the the US and UK armies held the Taliban back from becoming even stronger. The Taliban are not going to think "hey we won lets chill out' their ideology fuels them push forward and change the world. They are now in a very powerful position that they have never had before. Backing from Russia and China, artillery on a scale they never had and a whole land to train armies and terrorists. They beat the US they will think they are unbeatable.

Namechangetimeagain · 16/08/2021 21:28

Excellent speech from a President who leads and makes the tough decisions for his country and he admits when he's miscalculated.

It's not an easy gig.

Parker231 · 16/08/2021 21:32

Trump has left a horrendous disaster for Biden. There are no winners, only losers in Afghanistan.
Not a great speech but better than being shouted at by Trump.

Namechangetimeagain · 16/08/2021 21:32

@FromEden

He could barely read/see the script and stumbling over words. Just embarrassing.

Yep. He is painful to watch. Literally just read off a script and badly. No emotion in his tone or expressions.

Did you ever watch Trump's 'speeches'. Do you ever watch Boris Johnson?

I saw someone with dignity, who read his speech coherently and well. I just don't get the senile old man vibe at all.

I did from Trump though.

Steakandcheeseplease · 16/08/2021 21:33

@Thatsjustwhatithink the presentation is important because the POCUS is saying them. He looked like someones elderly dad half pissed speaking at his daughters wedding before going up to bed for a lie down.

He was going on about passing this decision on to another president - the leave date was September...does he know something we don't know.

It was catastrophic to leave the way they did.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 16/08/2021 21:34

@Steakandcheeseplease

You're lack of understanding regarding the Taliban is a bit odd. The Taliban are majority pashtun. They have no interest in outside Afghanistan, and only stayed in Pakistan because ISI thought they could control them.

Are you talking about literal or figurative artillery? Because it makes no sense? What armies are they training? They despise Deash?

Neither Russia nor China back the Taliban, but have decided not to fight them. That's a very different premise. China, because it doesn't do hot wars. And Russia, because it is running a continued cold/warm war against the west.