To think Joe Biden is an even worse president than Trump?

[Aspiringmatriarch]

I realise Trump was appalling in many ways so this isn't a pro-Trump post really, and I know he was the one who put things in motion for the withdrawal from Afghanistan. But to pull out in such a sudden and shambolic way will without doubt be the direct cause of many deaths and other atrocities in Afghanistan, including the deaths of those who helped the US and other forces. I think it's utterly unforgivable. Can't think of anything Trump did with quite such immediate and devastating consequences. AIBU?

This was far worse but ignored www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-betrayal-of-the-kurds-927545/

Biden has dementia and others are pulling the strings. He demands questions before he publicly speaks, and even then he pauses and rambles out incomprehensible words. Trump was a sleaze with his history of playboy bunnies, but Biden is dangerous.

Obama and Trump made steps to withdraw from Afghanistan, but Biden pulls the rug out so suddenly… and he’s AWOL!! His sudden decision has resulted in innocent people dying.

You seem to know very little about Biden or politics.

Biden has overcome a stutter, which is why he sometimes takes a pause or stumbles.
It is Trump who mumbles incomprehensible words.

It was also Trump who prepared and got the deal to withdraw. This was not sudden (and certainly not a last minute decision by Biden), unless you've been distracted.

[quote Ohsugarhoneyicetea]"I would share my bathroom long before I would share my uterus."

Don't worry love, they're coming for that too.

www.cbc-network.org/2021/02/men-now-want-access-to-uterine-transplants/[/quote]
If someone wants to artificially create a uterus go for it. That would also be a brilliant development for women who don’t have a uterus/can’t carry children etc.

Nowhere under any of Biden’s policy does he propose restricting abortions and access to birth control.

As I said, I would share my bathroom long before my uterus.

Biden’s an arse but Trump was a fucking facist.

@MarshaBradyo

did you call for UK forces to leave at anytime before then?

As many have said to you but it’s not being read - U.K. and other countries follow US decisions. We would have stayed until they left.

But whilst our soldiers were being killed in their droves, we could have pulled out... which was the point i was making to you.

In terms of lives lost, that damage has been done already - i would really like to know if or what we said to try and change the Americans mind.
I suspect nothing at all.

If just seems, as many soldiers an families are saying, their loved ones deaths and injuries were for nothing.

but can't get past the betrayal and utter incompetence of this withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Which was actually prepared and demanded by Trump?

How do you suggest it should have been done given the timeline Trump agreed, and demanded from Biden too?

He may have over come a stutter earlier in life... But he's still losing his mind. There's no way he is well enough to do the job.

Time will tell...

Vaccines have always been mandated in some workplaces

Only those working with vulnerable populations. Not for general workplaces. Flu shots have never really been mandated outside of healthcare settings. Certainly not school or normal offices.

When children start school, they show their 'vaccine passport' or they don't start

You can also show a certificate of recovery for measles and chicken pox, for instance. So we should be able to do that for COVID too, no?

They then have to continue getting vaccines throughout college and show proof

I went to college in the US and nothing was mandatory at that time (I did get a meningitis shot as I thought it prudent)

To go to certain countries you need to get certain vaccines

The vast majority of countries, no. I’ve been all over the developing world. Outside a handful of African countries, this was never a requirement of travel (it could be a requirement of residency though).

To play sports you need your records

Not in my experience. Where have you experienced this?

Vaccine Passport is nothing but another right wing talking point to scare voters away from the Democrats with absolutely no intelligence behind it

If a Democratic candidate fought against vaccine passports, I’d support them too. Should be a broader coalition against it imho

No one is going to force a needle into your arm

No, they will just make daily life more and more difficult, with glee as well.

Also? I did get my shots so I could travel.

But I absolutely abhor the ideas behind showing a vaccine passport just to go out to eat or get an education (still other places where you need it to access public transport!!). So while I’m not really affected, I will fight it.

OK, maybe Trump wanted to leave sooner in which case the blood would be on his hands. But Biden and Biden's administration have ultimately done this, just given a big fuck you to all the women and children and innocent people left to be terrorised now. I'm in disbelief at how callous and irresponsible this is, and the fact is that it will make the world a less safe place for us all in the coming years too.

Have you even read the thread?

Biden just honored the deal done by Trump. As most Presidents do in relation to previously signed international treaties.

I'm just going to mention the Paris Agreement. Do you know anything about it?

I wonder what the outcome would have been had Biden overturned agreement to withdraw and sent in 12000 plus troops, and dealt with the backlash. Committing to a few more decades.

Would people have an issue with the US / west doing this too?

I was interested in US ambassador views this am, who was critical, but even he couldn’t answer a straight question on length of service.

*America's war?

It was the whole world's war. Do you not remember the sheer terror that followed 9 /11police it until the end of days*

Yes I do. But most I remember the Atocha bombings in Madrid in 2004 where almost 200 people died and over 2000 were injured on train bombs on an islamic attacks.

While for you Americans think September 11 is an extraordinaire event, many of us in Europe are used to it. Your one event in international terrorism is not exceptional.

@Iusedtobesoooomuchfun

He may have over come a stutter earlier in life... But he's still losing his mind. There's no way he is well enough to do the job.

Time will tell...

This is so funny.

I'm sure he is losing his mind. We all are. Given enough time.

I'm sure you think Trump is of sound mind by comparison, right?

@Lweji so you're essentially saying Biden had no say over how this was done? No influence over the timing, the manner in which this has happened?

[quote Aspiringmatriarch]@Lweji so you're essentially saying Biden had no say over how this was done? No influence over the timing, the manner in which this has happened?[/quote]
Unless he wanted to renege on the agreement done by Trump.

And on the manner, neither. In 7 months you can't prepare a country if it wasn't done in 19 years.
Unless you know something nobody else seems to know.

Unfortunately, some President had to leave Afghanistan. I doubt it would have ended any differently.

@Lweji

but can't get past the betrayal and utter incompetence of this withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Which was actually prepared and demanded by Trump?

How do you suggest it should have been done given the timeline Trump agreed, and demanded from Biden too?

Biden et al knows he can’t really weasel out this with a ‘but Trump!?!!’

If he thought it was a bad idea he could have actually changed it. Everyone knows that any deal can be scrapped with a new POTUS. See the Iranian nuclear deal for a relevant example from the last administration.

So yeah, they’re absolutely going to blame Trump (surprised they haven’t already, it really must be chaos at the WH).

But no one outside of complete partisans is going to buy it, sorry.

If 78 year old Joe Biden is senile, what does that make 9 year old Rupert Murdoch promoting votes switched by Chinese thermometers in voting machines?

This was going to have happened sooner or later. We never should have gone in in the first place. There is a lot of talk and argument today about the British Empire, but nobody seems to have learnt anything from it. Britain fought three wars in Afghanistan. The first (1839-42) was the biggest defeat in British Military history and we only got out of the other two (1879-81 and 1919) by sheer good luck without achieving any of our aims. Nobody in history has ever permanently conquered Afghanistan.

Both are dreadful, but Biden is far more dangerous. How anyone in their right mind voted for him I do not know.

@Aspiringmatriarch

Ok just popping back on to make it clear again I'm not suggesting Trump was a good president and was particularly bad for women's rights, for his handling of the pandemic, stirring up racial hatred, and for being an abusive arsehole in general. I guess it was a case of anyone must be better than him, and I assumed this was true but can't get past the betrayal and utter incompetence of this withdrawal from Afghanistan. To me, it dwarfs almost any other policy and maybe because I naively thought the Democrats would show a modicum of respect for human rights, I'm all the more shocked at the callousness of leaving people to a fate I don't even want to imagine. Surely this is a scandal on a par with anything Trump did while in power? OK, maybe Trump wanted to leave sooner in which case the blood would be on his hands. But Biden and Biden's administration have ultimately done this, just given a big fuck you to all the women and children and innocent people left to be terrorised now. I'm in disbelief at how callous and irresponsible this is, and the fact is that it will make the world a less safe place for us all in the coming years too.

Some people here have the memories of goldfish if they somehow think that Biden is worse than Trump.

Trump did all the things that Trump did AND would have done exactly the same here as Biden has done. It was him who started the process off (by freeing the Taliban leader and then sending Pompeo to negotiate with the Taliban) and was saying, only recently, about how Biden was unable to stop it.

Also Biden is the President of the United States, not the world - Trump may have said it out loud, but it's been 'America first' for a long time. It's well past the time when anyone should be looking at them for any kind of leadership, regardless of who is in the white house.

We should be heading in the direct opposite direction of the way the US is going. Sadly the reverse seems to be true (thanks Brexit!).

@Alondra

*America's war?

It was the whole world's war. Do you not remember the sheer terror that followed 9 /11police it until the end of days*

Yes I do. But most I remember the Atocha bombings in Madrid in 2004 where almost 200 people died and over 2000 were injured on train bombs on an islamic attacks.

While for you Americans think September 11 is an extraordinaire event, many of us in Europe are used to it. Your one event in international terrorism is not exceptional.

I’m actually English. How can you say it wasn’t an extraordinary event? Ten thousand people were killed or injured.

9/11 remains the most infamous and devastating terrorist attack in modern memory. It changed the world.

I don’t know where you’re living but over here in England we’re certainly not ‘used to it’.

UsedUpUsername
See my previous post.
Also the article link I posted earlier.
And posts by so many pps on this thread.

This was almost inevitable. Or the US would just continue in Afghanistan, as before. For who knows how many years. Maybe that was a better option, but Presidents have been criticised over the years for the continued presence of the US in Afghanistan.

I wonder how many on this thread, particularly the critics, are familiar with the Russian presence in Afghanistan, way before the US.

@Lweji

but can't get past the betrayal and utter incompetence of this withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Which was actually prepared and demanded by Trump?

How do you suggest it should have been done given the timeline Trump agreed, and demanded from Biden too?

No, it was an Obama election promise that he followed through on by starting the withdrawal in 2012. The withdrawal has taken a decade. It’s not been badly planned or hurried. It was a lost war.

The problem is firmly the fact that the Taliban has been around since the 1980s and was never really completely defeated by the US and Allies during the Afghanistan war. They always kept strongholds in rural areas and were funded by various benefactors in the gulf states and by Pakistan. The various Muslim warlords simply bided their time until the inevitable withdrawal as they did a hundred years ago in the Afghan-British wars and fifty years ago in the Afghan-Soviet war.

The withdrawal wasn’t because the US and Allies had won, it was because it was clearly a losing war not worth continuing. As for the fate of the people, it’s sad but at some point US and Allies can’t be held responsible for what a another country decides to do with itself. Best we can do at this point is start an aggressive refugee evacuation and asylum program so the afghani people can leave if they wish to.

@Jorrris

Both are dreadful, but Biden is far more dangerous. How anyone in their right mind voted for him I do not know.

My relatives in the US can’t understand how anyone voted for Trump.

While for you Americans think September 11 is an extraordinaire event, many of us in Europe are used to it. Your one event in international terrorism is not exceptional.

As a European I think that is quite offensive. September 11 was a shock event to many not just Americans!

How do you suggest it should have been done given the timeline Trump agreed, and demanded from Biden too?

Here is a prime example of 'But Trump'

1. Biden accepted the premise that we need to leave Afghanistan

1. Biden essentially stayed in the deal even though they unilaterally extended it.

3. Biden had no sense as to what was going on in country and was telling the American public that the country would never collapse like this.

1. Biden said at no point would we have a Saigon moment.

5. They had months to evacuate people and instead they sat on their hands.

Why did Trump make Biden do this!!!

The absolute partisan nature that some people cannot accept critism...

@Lweji There’s a difference between a stammer and lack of concentration. If you watch his recent speeches, he seems to have dementia. He keeps stumbling over his words, rambles on, takes long pauses and looks confused and vacant. Can you honestly say that Biden looks and sounds well? At least Trump could answer questions on the spot. I don’t like either men, but Biden is not well and not suited for presidency.