AIBU to insist we stay in London?

[londonlass33]

DH wants to leave London and I desperately don’t. We’ve visited numerous places in the south-east where we could viably live (due to commuting distance mainly) to house hunt and I’ve just not felt at home anywhere.

For me London has it all - culture, diversity, fabulous parks, restaurants, excellent public transport, nightlife, sports and myriad educational and job opportunities for the DC when they get older. Nowhere we’ve visited has come even close to my mind.

We also live in a lovely quiet street with a wonderful sense of community and are good friends with our fabulous neighbours. We have many friends in the area through the DC’s nursery too.

DH is adamant he wants to leave as whilst he acknowledges all of the above, he’s got his heart set on a change of scenery after the last 18 months. I’m very reluctant to give it a go for the aforementioned reasons and because it will be nigh on impossible to come back if we leave and regret it.

WWYD?

@londonlass33

Drive by shootings included. Last night one of the victims (now in hospital) was an elderly woman (believed caught in the cross fire).

Sadly these tragedies can happen anywhere - just look at the terrible news in Plymouth. I never feel unsafe in London.

Yes look at the difference. Resigned shrug of oh well just another day in London versus understandable horror over Plymouth.

These things don't just happen everywhere. The Plymouth incident was so shocking precisely because it isn't a regular occurrence (in Plymouth).

But the chances of getting caught up in a drive-by shooting in London are absolutely tiny. Crime rates are not something that concerns me - as I said, I always feel very safe here.

How old are your kids OP? And you and DH?

I think you have to REALLY want to do this to make it work for you. Both of you not just him.

Renting is a really good idea and although daunting much more practical money wise than making the move and regretting it. It’s very hard to go back once you have sold and bought etc.

I’ve done it after 32 years in London and my childhood in Beckenham. It’s hard. It has its pros and cons. I hate fast country roads. I hate the lack of transport options. It’s very hard making new friends. There are many plus points but I still haven’t settled after 3 years and I intrinsically miss London. I’m in a market town in the SE and it’s a vibrant, expensive and popular place with many commuters into London.

I can resonate with many comments on this thread. In fact I’m having a “low” weekend and there are regular occasions like this. I love going to the seaside, I’m in a National Park with beautiful scenery but I have a like/hatred relationship with it all just because it’s not London with all that is offered there. I never expected to feel like this, but feel like it I do.

I firmly would advise “try before you buy”. That way you can keep your options open. Renting your London home will pay for the country option. Try it for at least a year then decide.

I agree with the PP who mentioned outer boroughs. I read the thread sob here about London and ask myself if I really live in London because were I live is so different to the stereotypes on here. In my locality the crime rate is one of the lowest we have tiens of green space and yet we are in central london in 30 minutes. I would definitely explore the outskirts of London before you upheave yourself.

Neither of you is unreasonable. You simply want different things.

Yes, you both need to comprise a bit. I wouldn't be worried about job opportunities for the dc though as I'm sure work will look quite different in a decade plus.

we will both be expected back at the office for at least 3-4 days a week in the not too distant future

On this basis alone, don’t move out to the countryside. IMO it only works when one parent is not commuting or hardly every commuting. Two of you commuting regularly will be very stressful and really minimise your time with your DC.

I also think your DH should delay any decisions until you’ve had at least one year of normal (or fairly normal) London rather than pandemic London. Of course right now London seems to offer less and the open countryside more. But how silly to make a life decision based on a (please god) temporary state of affairs.

London is opening up though. Why isn’t he going back to doing stuff?

I left london and don’t regret for a second. Just the cost of it is astronomical now.

That all said as others said good neighbours and community is an enormous plus. I think you should open your eyes to the possibility in the future but right now your dh needs to have better reasons than fancying a change of scenery. We all do tbh!

One thing I have found annoying is the amount of neighbours, dc's friends who have all left in the last 2 yrs, I've lost that friendship circle after losing my NCT one. It's weird as I know it's normal but covid must have accelerated it as DH & I are both Londoners & our friends are out school friends.

Do not sell your London home. Make it your red line that you keep that and try out any move by renting for at least 18 months anywhere else first.

you’re both going to commute into London 3/4 days a week when are your children roaming the countryside? Surely they’ll be in breakfast and after school club for long days while you commute??

Get your DH to work out a plan accounting for all this, including finances and logistics. I'm not saying he's one of them, but quite a few men seem to decide they want to move for a change of scene, and then expect their spouse to do all the research to actually make sure it's practical.

Another benefit I can see of leaving London is reducing the amount of pollution that the DC are exposed to

tbf this is one thing i'm quite concerned about for my dc.

Don't do it! If you're settled and you can afford a home big enough to accommodate your family in London it's crazy to move.

I suspect it will be even harder than usual to reverse in couple of years when everyone who left for covid is wanting to move back too.

I really think there is a strong onus on your darling husband to justify the move. Or in other words that you have a veto. If there were strong reasons for not staying put, for example the whole family was crammed into a two-bedroom flat, it would be different. But just wanting a change of scene is not enough. That's trumped by the status quo.

Personally if I were to leave it would be to a smaller city as even in London you tend to stay in your area most of the time & I'm not a fan of lots of commuting.

I personally would find living in another city close to other amenities far more desirable than zones 5 or 6.

honestly don't understand why anyone chooses to live in London past their early twenties/young adulthood tbh.

as @Tealightsandd said some of us were born & raised here!

I grew up in central London (SW1). Neither of my parents were Londoners by birth, and must have had this discussion weekly for 15 years! It is the dilemma that probably caused more families I knew growing up to split up, than anything else.

(In our case, the parent that wanted to stay died, and the parent that wanted to go waited for the youngest child to finish school, the left).

@tynat

honestly don't understand why anyone chooses to live in London past their early twenties/young adulthood tbh.

as @Tealightsandd said some of us were born & raised here!

I'd add: some of were raised outside London and have no intention of returning to what we escaped

😆

I sometimes want to leave (London has changed a lot) but because my parents are immigrants I don't have a single tie to any other part of the country, same for DH.

We’ve been in SE London for 18 years and it has changed - but I like it better actually. We did the areas that were ‘up and coming’

Re why would you stay after 20s - sounds a bit closed minded. I mean I get why other people enjoy where they live even if it’s not what I choose

If DH’s reasons are based mainly on the last 18 months, which let’s be real haven’t been normal, could you suggest revisiting it in another 18 months? So not taking it off the table entirely but agreeing to come back to it when life looks and feels a little more normal.

@MasterChefz

Go. London is a shit hole < gets coat >

Yep. Left ten years ago, wild horses would never drag me back.

First week I moved to London in I saw a girl get mugged at knifepoint in broad daylight for her phone. Far from the worst thing I saw. And I was living in a 'naice' area.

TeamDH here.

Hi OP, both you and your husband make excellent points so here is my two pennies worth.

Loads of my friends who have left London, have left for space - mainly house, garden, sometimes for the great outdoors countryside. My friends simply could not afford a bigger house in the areas of London they wanted to live in.
Is your current house big enough for your future family?

My friends who have stayed in London and have increased the size of their properties , as their families grew, in the areas they want in live in have insane jobs - in terms of pay and workload - banking / law/ tax accountancy types.
Will your future earnings be enough to buy the type of house you would like in the area you would like?

People in your street / community will move because of the above reasons - don't make a decision based on current neighbours. There tends to be an exodus around significant school intakes e.g. going into reception & KS2.

If you have nursery / primary aged children you will meet other parents / mums. I was given this piece of advice by a careers councillor. Essentially if you move house / area with primary aged children to another like minded area - you will make contacts with other families. It is much harder with secondary aged children. We did do a significant move and I can definitely say what she said is true.

It's worth asking friends about areas that you might like. We moved to a village with amazing primary school and at least 6 amazing restaurants so we never feel we miss out.

Personally, I could never move back to London, I love the countryside and fresh air but also like that I can still get there for a night out within an hour.

I know so many people who have left London in the pandemic - I am sure you must know some who have done the same - is it possible to speak to them?