AIBU to insist we stay in London?

[londonlass33]

DH wants to leave London and I desperately don’t. We’ve visited numerous places in the south-east where we could viably live (due to commuting distance mainly) to house hunt and I’ve just not felt at home anywhere.

For me London has it all - culture, diversity, fabulous parks, restaurants, excellent public transport, nightlife, sports and myriad educational and job opportunities for the DC when they get older. Nowhere we’ve visited has come even close to my mind.

We also live in a lovely quiet street with a wonderful sense of community and are good friends with our fabulous neighbours. We have many friends in the area through the DC’s nursery too.

DH is adamant he wants to leave as whilst he acknowledges all of the above, he’s got his heart set on a change of scenery after the last 18 months. I’m very reluctant to give it a go for the aforementioned reasons and because it will be nigh on impossible to come back if we leave and regret it.

WWYD?

But it is really hard to make friends - lots of the school mums seem to have grown up here and already have their social circles, etc.

This really concerns me too. It’s not something you have to worry about in London!

So difficult but you really need to both want to go, or at least one wants to go, one is undecided. We recently left London, but had really good reasons (a number fo them) for going.

In your situation, I expect you need to wait a year or so (to let things return to normal, well hopefully they will), and then perhaps rent for an initial year (it sounds like your children are young enough to do this). I wouldn't sell up...

I'd stay put if I were you. Home counties life isn't for everyone. The only thing that I'd mention is that a lot of people have babies and toddlers in London then move away for more space at school age. So don't count on your nice group of nursery mums still being there in a few years time.

When you have been visiting other areas, have you tried to see any advantages?

The only obvious advantage I can see is better access to lovely countryside. That is undoubtedly a big plus! But I’m struggling to see any other positives really.

Our next door neighbours had a similar dilemma with almost identical arguments to yours. One of them was a born and bred Londoner. They decided to rent out their London house and rent a house here in a rural location so the kids could have that countryside upbringing and they absolutely love it. They have settled in completely, the kids love it and as far as I know they are staying for good.

So don't count on your nice group of nursery mums still being there in a few years time.

That is true. But I assume when the DC start school we will make friends through that!

don't do it.
would you be quite relaxed about letting your children roam free about the countryside ? i wouldn't, and i;m the one who always thinks children are babied too much these days.
your children would have to be taken everywhere, even for secondary school, unless you live next to it, which is v unlikely.
often there is no safe walking in the country, narrow roads, people drive too fast, let alone the vulnerabilities of being alone, in the dark.
so the children probably get less freedom actually.
in london they can get around well on public transport, visit friends, places of interest, get involved in activities etc.

Renting sounds like a good option - I think I’m just a bit daunted by the prospect of it if I’m honest.

Interesting @alexdgr8 - I hadn’t thought of it like that. I think things were a bit different when DH was a boy!

yanbu

London is great for kids, especially teenagers who want to travel independently etc.

if DH insists, only to a trial year by renting out the London house & renting in the country.

But I reckon that there is a high chance that, in 1 year's time, all the people who fled London in the pandemic will want to come back & there will be a new London boom. now is not the time to leave.

It is a big thing to uproot and rent. Especially when you have a home you love already.

I had a rural fairly idyllic childhood and initially I may have thought about that but now dc are older all the friendships etc and stuff you mention is good.

Can you rent out your home and try out country life for a year? I have two friends who panicked and sold up in London during the pandemic and bought lovely houses outside it and both are gutted they did it. One had always yearned for country living, the other moved to be near her mum. They are both mothers to toddlers and this probably makes adjusting more difficult.

Go. London is a shit hole < gets coat >

The truth is wherever you were to move to will not have the same things as London - as you say not even close! If you were looking to move it would be to experience different things so if that's not what you're looking for then of course you will not be interested in moving.

Personally I like that I live close enough to London to experience all that when I want, but day to day I love living somewhere quieter by the sea.

The other thing that makes renting more difficult is that we have pets (a dog and a cat).

We moved out of zone 2/3border eight years ago, to rural Yorkshire, but the flat bit, not the nice hilly bit.

It takes a lot of research to find somewhere you will like. I would stay in London until later primary age and then reconsider. The things I miss the most are being able to jump on a bus and go to see whatever I like; cycling to work; the cultural diversity and having the kids exposed to a range of people; people who want a good secondary school not just the nearest; oh god frankly the list is endless. Like others, I'm starting to notice how isolated I feel and yes I can drive, yes I could go to York or Leeds or whatever...but i remember when we moved and the bus (I didn't drive then) was £5.60 return and they didn't take cards or contactless and I was like where am I, the 1980s? Oh and the last bus back to our village left 15 mins before the earliest train I could get home, when I worked in Leeds and had to commute by public transport. It is, frankly, a bit shit and while you get used to it, it's absolutely definitely not London.

Also my career has taken a nose dive and job titles and salaries are apparently made up by Sooty Sweep and Soo and after a few years as a freelancer /sahm I am struggling to find a role that is worth it financially.

So, all in, no. Give it a few years and then consider renting your place out, like others have said.

@MasterChefz

Go. London is a shit hole < gets coat >

Do you read the op and think that? Maybe some places you go, and it’s not for everyone. But it’s obvious the op enjoys where she is.

I'd not go!

Sounds like he doesn't really have any good reason for wanting go.

You're right, once you go, you won't be able to come back if you want to.

Purely for a change of scenery no, I wouldn't do it. There are lots of excellent reasons to move, but that isn't one of them.

Nor would I fancy a lifestyle where both might have to commute 4 days a week if it weren't offering significant benefits for everyone.

Another benefit I can see of leaving London is reducing the amount of pollution that the DC are exposed to. So that’s two good reasons - closer to countryside and less pollution!

@londonlass33

DH is just adamant that he wants to try something different after 18 months of being largely confined to the same area. He wants a bigger house so family can stay more often and thinks the DC will have an idyllic childhood if we move somewhere that is surrounded by countryside so they can roam free. He grew up in the countryside and that was his experience - he wants to give that same childhood to the DC.

We need to be nearish to London as we will both be expected back at the office for at least 3-4 days a week in the not too distant future. That still gives us a very wide search area but there’s nowhere we’ve visited that I’ve preferred to London.

I’m also very reluctant to risk new neighbours when our current ones are so lovely and quiet!

I feel there is an element of the pandemic making a mark here.

My DD feels the same. We are South West England and sometimes I feel myself thinking that. But I honestly think it is what the pandemic has done to us.

It makes sense for us to stay here.

And your life sounds wonderful, quite frankly.

I hope you can wait until the pandemic eases as all that lockdown stuff has made it's mark I feel and skews our thinking. In six months things might look different.

If you decide to go for it or try it - don’t go for a village unless it has a station. We went for a town and that was absolutely the right choice for us. You don’t want to be in a position where you have to get in a car for a pint of milk if you’re used to the convenience of London shop hours. Also, the cost of station parking is insane in a lot of commuter spots, aside from whether you really want a dark rural drive home from the station each night.

In hindsight, I think we would have been better off moving to the suburbs of another U.K. city. Our budget would have gone further somewhere like Sheffield or Manchester, we’d have had easy access to the countryside but all the benefits of easy access to the city if we’d picked the right kind of suburb. Had we gone for one city, we would have been closer to extended family too. So I would definitely consider that as an option, especially if you have family elsewhere in the U.K. or there are cities you know you like. Places like Bristol and Sheffield aren’t too far for days out in London and have all the best of both worlds in terms of city living and access to the countryside.

In terms of child freedom - your DH is idealising. Move to a small town and everyone is (understandably) worried about teenage gang violence and county lines stuff. Move anywhere out of London and people worry about drugs. Stay in London and worry about them getting mugged. You’re going to worry, basically!

often there is no safe walking in the country, narrow roads, people drive too fast, let alone the vulnerabilities of being alone, in the dark.
so the children probably get less freedom actually

This is true only if you live in the back of beyond miles from civilisation. The Home Counties commuter belt isn’t like this at all.

I think DH's idea of an idyllic country childhood might be a bit unrealistic within commutable distance to London. My 10 year old is allowed to local parks etc, but he's unusual for his age and when he gets older, it's still urban enough that he's not out climbing trees etc. To get proper countryside type vibes the commute alone starts to become an issue I think.

Having said that, is there a compromise? You don't say where you in London you are but could you move to zone 3 or 4 or even 5 where you can get a bit more space, there are often larger parks/wild life areas, it's relatively easy to get to "proper nature" but you still have many of the benefits of London? Clapham, Wimbledon, Richmond (depending on how far out you want to be) in the South West or Dulwich etc if going further east (I don' know those areas that well)?

I have a colleague who has similar discussions with her DH and they are considering Dulwich or Clapham as a compromise but her point has always been that their DC (teenagers) have such a wonderful life in London with a lot of freedom and variety.