AIBU to insist we stay in London?

[londonlass33]

DH wants to leave London and I desperately don’t. We’ve visited numerous places in the south-east where we could viably live (due to commuting distance mainly) to house hunt and I’ve just not felt at home anywhere.

For me London has it all - culture, diversity, fabulous parks, restaurants, excellent public transport, nightlife, sports and myriad educational and job opportunities for the DC when they get older. Nowhere we’ve visited has come even close to my mind.

We also live in a lovely quiet street with a wonderful sense of community and are good friends with our fabulous neighbours. We have many friends in the area through the DC’s nursery too.

DH is adamant he wants to leave as whilst he acknowledges all of the above, he’s got his heart set on a change of scenery after the last 18 months. I’m very reluctant to give it a go for the aforementioned reasons and because it will be nigh on impossible to come back if we leave and regret it.

WWYD?

Posted too soon but here's an article in the Guardian on the very subject... www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/08/branching-out-buying-woodland-covid-crisis

@Willyoujustbequiet

You couldn't pay me to live in London with a young family - the pollution, the traffic, the crowds... The comments about not being able to walk in the countryside are utterly bizarre and can only imagine those posters have never been outside the M25.

Having said that if your heart is in London you should stay. You cant insist though and it may ultimately end your marriage so perhaps compromise by renting for a year?

We both have family outside of the M25. My mum's village has a mega busy road cutting straight through the middle of it. It also has a dearth of pavements. So I feel quite unsafe and at risk of being knocked over a lot of the time walking around there. My MIL lives in a village with a crap bus route. It is also very car-focused. Traffic is appalling at rush hour. I've been to plenty of places in the UK where public transport is crap but it's not set up walking or cycling in any useful way.

I agree with a previous poster - there is no right answer - go with your heart - probably difficult if Dh's heart is different from yours. I can tell you ( my ) older DCs prefer London as do their friends . Many won't.

I'm not sure I recognise the countryside as having nothing to do for teenagers (granted we're outer suburbs rather than the Lake District). My sons have a busy social life via the local sports clubs. Their school mates come from a wide catchment, some locally, some from central London so they're used to jumping on the tube to meet up. Or getting an Uber.

We went up to London for the day yesterday; it's only 25 minutes to Marylebone. When I lived in central London, it could easily take the same time on the tube to meet up with friends locally. It's a very diverse area; my kids were in a group of around 5% of our school population by ethnicity.

I love London and I may move back there when my kids leave home. But it's not as polarised as some people have presented it, which seems to be London good, Home Counties bad.

I’m also amazed at this thread.

OP I really feel for you as it’s such a tough one and it’s sometimes impossible in life to keep everyone happy.

I enjoy London for the occasional weekend away, it’s fun for sure!

But no, I really wouldn’t want to live or bring up children there. The pollution being one of the factors.

However, the majority of people’s views on the countryside on here are laughable and I think it’s because they’re missing a valid point.

Teenagers and children CAN become bored but that’s if they don’t have anything to do (and they can become bored anywhere) if you move rurally, or more rurally the best thing to do is get involved with ‘country life’ Get them into the YFC who have endless activities, trips away, weekly meetings, dinner dances, balls etc. If you can afford it and they’re interested, get them into horses and they’ll never be bored (no time to be!) there are brownies/ Cubs/ guides/ air cadets / dance groups/ judo/ jujitsu/ tennis clubs etc etc in every rural county, all these offer so much to children. And whilst you may have to do a bit of ferrying, parents (or at least mine and my friends always did) tend to share the load of ferrying their kids around so you might do so one week and then for the next 3 weeks it’s taken care of by other parents.

Also, everyone saying that children can’t walk around on their countryside and villages, I just don’t recognise that at all. I live in a rural village of 400 people and a fair few kids of all different ages. There are 4 footpath routes in the village that take you to 4 different places (one being a small market town and the others other villages, 2 of which are busier, have regular buses and trains to the nearest city) They can walk / roam for hours on footpaths and have never been told off by farmers because they don’t need to go on the crops because ....there’s footpaths. There’s a bit of woodland off one of the meadows and there’s 3 rope swings that they all seem to play on. You never see them during the week really because they’re at school and then after school activities.

Ultimately you like what you like, there’s no right or wrong but I hate this notion that no teenager or child can ever be happy in the countryside. Myself and my friends all grew up in the countryside and had idyllic childhoods but to be fair that’s because we immersed ourselves in country life through the YFC, horses etc.

I live in a SE town which is twenty mins drive away from a thirty seven min commute into London via the high speed train. Lots of Londoners are moving here, they are making friends, getting involved with the community and seem to be loving it. So if you think it’s easier to make friends with Londoners you won’t be lacking I guess in any town in the Home Counties - it’s an exodus at the moment.

Rightmove are showing no houses to buy round here because of this, that’ll be your main problem in moving.

@Galaxyfiend

I’m also amazed at this thread.

OP I really feel for you as it’s such a tough one and it’s sometimes impossible in life to keep everyone happy.

I enjoy London for the occasional weekend away, it’s fun for sure!

But no, I really wouldn’t want to live or bring up children there. The pollution being one of the factors.

However, the majority of people’s views on the countryside on here are laughable and I think it’s because they’re missing a valid point.

Teenagers and children CAN become bored but that’s if they don’t have anything to do (and they can become bored anywhere) if you move rurally, or more rurally the best thing to do is get involved with ‘country life’ Get them into the YFC who have endless activities, trips away, weekly meetings, dinner dances, balls etc. If you can afford it and they’re interested, get them into horses and they’ll never be bored (no time to be!) there are brownies/ Cubs/ guides/ air cadets / dance groups/ judo/ jujitsu/ tennis clubs etc etc in every rural county, all these offer so much to children. And whilst you may have to do a bit of ferrying, parents (or at least mine and my friends always did) tend to share the load of ferrying their kids around so you might do so one week and then for the next 3 weeks it’s taken care of by other parents.

Also, everyone saying that children can’t walk around on their countryside and villages, I just don’t recognise that at all. I live in a rural village of 400 people and a fair few kids of all different ages. There are 4 footpath routes in the village that take you to 4 different places (one being a small market town and the others other villages, 2 of which are busier, have regular buses and trains to the nearest city) They can walk / roam for hours on footpaths and have never been told off by farmers because they don’t need to go on the crops because ....there’s footpaths. There’s a bit of woodland off one of the meadows and there’s 3 rope swings that they all seem to play on. You never see them during the week really because they’re at school and then after school activities.

Ultimately you like what you like, there’s no right or wrong but I hate this notion that no teenager or child can ever be happy in the countryside. Myself and my friends all grew up in the countryside and had idyllic childhoods but to be fair that’s because we immersed ourselves in country life through the YFC, horses etc.

Also 'countryside' isn't some shorthand for some sort of homogenous blob that's shorthand for 'Not London'. Where my DP grew up is just like you described - Scouts, a local marching band, and theatre group just to name a few. 'Countryside' didn't mean an actual rural area but a small town that was surrounded by farmland and villages.

However where his grandparents live in small village with plenty of natural wonders but very out of the way. Secondary school closed last year and you can count the number of kids on one hand.

Clearly miles apart!

I will say though if you're a city person and like the anonymity as well as the ability to interact with various new and unknown people, the buzz of the city (like I do) 'activities' alone won't make up for it.

Don’t do it OP. We did this 16 years ago - I still had baby brain and got swept away by my OHs determination. Now priced out of London and stuck I dull, non diverse Brexit land. Being close to London is just not the same amd I wish I’d never left. I think the children roaming free is pretty much an illusion.

This is me too. I'd give anything to be back in London but it's too late, I'm priced out of the market now, and dd has never been socially confident enough to have coped well with a move back. I found 'the countryside' offered nothing to dd when she was younger, whereas we left behind some excellent, enormous parks with far more for kids. Also there are so many free activities in London, while everything costs a fortune where we are now. And transport - I'm constantly ferrying dd around, but if we were in London she'd have buses and tubes every few mins. Also agree with posters saying they feel safer in 'busy' London areas than small market towns where everything closes down at 5.30pm and high streets are deserted.

I agree @Galaxyfiend. Mine was never bored either but for different reasons. We live in a very small town with a river running through it and a huge water meadow behind it. There are buses to both the nearest cities and the station that takes you into London in an hour is 15 minutes walk.

Here the kids all go out on their bikes in big groups in the summer. They use the network of cycle paths - which also takes them to secondary school which has an excellent Ofsted rating. They have loads of freedom and access to space.

There’s a sweet spot between living in the arse end of nowhere and London.

If moving out means your kids have to be in childcare from (probably) 7.45 to 6 most days, when are they enjoying this countryside life? On the weekends? So why not just do lots of day trips on the weekend?

I can see the pros if one of you is SAHP or working locally, but you'd both be in London half the time anyway.

I'd just move to a greener quieter part of London. Nothing grey or crowded where we live, very little crime.

Well no, as the op has said her and her dh would be in the office 3/4 days a week. If they stagger it, that could be only 2 days in childcare for them for long days, with the other with parents WFH so able to drop just before they start work and pick up immediately after. And would it be that much less time in London?

Really if you pick towns on a fast commute line, when we moved out of London it only added 12 minutes each way to my commute. (But I was lucky to work near a large train station and we only looked at towns that were on the line to that station).

This shouldn't be a deciding factor, more what sort of lifestyle you want and where your heart is. If you love the area you are in, don't move. This is the only reason against it. (Unless he's pushing for an isolated village in the arse end of nowhere!)

Look at the various towns on the end of the Met Line. You can be in central London within half an hour, get more house for your money and outstanding schools. As your child gets older you'll start wanting more of a small town feel and parks. Schools are traditionally better outside Cities too.

Try renting somewhere for 6 months/a year; test the water together. Rent your house out to pay for it.

I spent most of the dcs early childhood yearning to move somewhere idyllic where they could play outside in green fields.

I'm now so happy we didn't. As teenagers they are so much happier and more more fulfilled. They can get public transport around cheaply which gives them independence. They've got wide circles of like minded friends, all very altruistic and positive thinking, not to mention racially and socially tolerant.

Although it's true they may move away, I feel they've had the best possible foundation for their lives here. The world could be open to them.

Definitely stay where you are. I am married to a grass is greener type and he is invariably wrong. If you let him lead you around you will never stop moving searching for the perfect location that does not exist! London is marvellous for the kids in their teenage years and young 20s etc.

Any chance you could afford a small bolthole somewhere for him to get away? Or even look overseas?

As teenagers they are so much happier and more more fulfilled

How do you know? You have absolutely no idea how happy and fulfilled they’d have been if you’d moved. I doubt it would have made any difference.

It's a tough one. I was in a similar situation in reverse. We live in the sticks, where my H is from, and I was dying to move back to somewhere more urban (not London - been there done that) but somewhere with a better quality of life as I find it far too isolating here and I was incredibly unhappy and limited in my work/social life options. He wouldn't even consider it, it was a point blank no. This house in this place was his childhood dream and so it wasn't up for negotiation. I did understand his POV and so I made a huge effort to integrate into the local community but it remained shit! I tried coming up with various compromises but it was still no. I ached to give my DC the kind of upbringing I had so I empathise with your DH. If he actually has a decent life where you are now and friends etc then that's different but I think if one person is really unhappy where you live them some element of compromise needs to reached - a trial period where you rent your house out and try somewhere for 6-12months etc. otherwise it can breeds huge resentment and in my case a trip to the divorce courts!

I'd give anything to move back to London - when you move out you can never move back as house prices go up so much more in London. There's nowhere as interesting or exciting, to me, anyway and it's so easy to get bored in the suburbs/country if it's not your thing

Don’t go. As you have said you’ll never afford to move back. Rent out and rent somewhere else away from London. Try before you make final choice. Not everyone can afford to live in London.
Good wishes wherever you settle.

Don't do it.. you'll be miserable as it sounds like you really don't want to move. I don't live in London (actually live in Glasgow) and I feel the same.. my home town has two pubs and no restaurants.. gorgeous countryside and friendly folk and yeah I'll probs think about going back when I retire. I visit London on a regular basis (pre-covid..I miss you London!) and always think it would be a fab place to live if money allowed. Does you dh have itchy feet or is genuinely miserable?

rent out your London home, rent a place out of town and try it for a year. Or, as others suggest, if finances allow then buy a second home for weekends and holidays. That's what we have done and it is the best of both worlds.

I have friends in the wider Guildford (Surrey) area who recently moved from zones 1 and 2 jin London. They noticed that there are many commuters in their new area and have quickly made friends.
Husbands and sons joined cricket and or rugby clubs, wives often work too but have wonderful social lives as do their children.
They don't, for one minute, regret moving.
Great leisure facilities, local theatres with the latest shows, lots if independent and artisan shops plus farmer's markets. Fabulous schools at all levels and a young vibrant community with a good mix of property. London W'loo in 40 minutes and lots of high net worth individuals have moved to be near the Surrey Hills/South Downs area. Berks and Hants are on the border and South Coast a 30 minute drive.
I her area is Chiddingfold with its own village green but then, nearly all the small towns and villages have their own clubs and village green.
Have a look and spend a weekend away. Ask people in the area why they moved and what the positives are. Good luck.

Could you afford to trial it by renting somewhere? Rent out your place in London maybe?

I don't think he's given it long enough,TBH

If you don't want to move out of London don't do it. What are the main advantages your DH is seeking and how could they be partially met without uprooting the family?

We have a second home in an idyllic village in the countryside. It's lovely. The main road through the village is a killer. Fast traffic and nowhere safe to cross. My 11 and 9 year old who roam freely in our local area in London are not allowed to cross the village road by themselves. Simply too dangerous.