AIBU to let 12 yo DD go out wearing these shorts?

[christyt114]

DH says I am.

DD (12) (but looks about 14) has these shorts which I got for her to exercise in but she says they're comfortable and likes them so wears them out and about.

Yesterday she wore them with a short top when she walked to meet her friend. They got a Costa then walked back to ours.

DH said she was "asking for trouble" because she was wearing the shorts and wants me to tell her she can't wear them out and about.

He reckons a paedophile will look at her and think "her parents don't care about her" and will abduct her.

(She made it home safely by the way).

Who's BU?

I don't want to see people wondering around in exercise gear who are not exercising. I'm concerned that 'comfortable' leads to not caring about weight, and most of those in 'athleisure' wear are those doing little exercise and in denial about this. The OPs DD may be an exception.

So no I don't think it's appropriate, but not just so for 12 year olds.

I have 2 young DD and I know that the day will come when they want to go out in clothes that show too much flesh. I dread it because sadly there will always be predators, but I don't want my girls to feel scared.

So, I am going to cut them a deal. Can wear whatever they want but they must go to a self-defence class or something similar. I believe it would feel very empowering knowing that you could look after yourself.

@Greenrubber

People need to stop having a go at your husband! He is concerned that she will give off the wrong impression by walking around like that and whether you agree or not it will happen even if it should not

What impression would that be then?

If an adult woman went out dressed like that she'd be looking for male attention surely? You can argue all you like that it's the men at fault, but some women do dress for attention seeking sake.

There's nothing wrong with wanting attention, it's a basic need in life and obviously if that attention becomes unwelcome the adult woman needs to tell him and the man needs to stop.

However, in a 12yo, it's down to the parents to manage that situation for her.

I don't think it's "men" who would be the issue here, but boys of a similar age, who equally need some help navigating what's expected of them in these situations. I know you'll all say that's the boys' issue and it is, but they're children too and they'll get it wrong sometimes.

I don't think she'll come to physical harm as a result of what she's wearing, but she will attract attention. As her parents, you get to decide what kind of attention you want for your 12yo.

DH said she was "asking for trouble" because she was wearing the shorts and wants me to tell her she can't wear them out and about.

ask your DH what he means by this. Does he want to do things to girls/women wearing exercise shorts? Does he think the shorts are a danger because of what boys/men will do to her? does he think that he's a fucking victim blaming excuse for a twat and he and his attitude is a large part of why so few rapists are convicted because women are scared to report attacks because of this attitude?

She can wear what she likes to go out, and he should retrain his brain.

I think that by "asking for trouble", DH means "will attract the wrong sort of attention".
Obviously girls and women should be able to wear what they like, but in the real world the grim truth is that certain items of clothing might be "read" wrongly by boys or more likely adult men, and the resultant leers might be something you would prefer DD not to have to deal with. TBH at 12 and looking 14 she will be attracting their attention anyway, but if she prefers to remain below the radar, then those shorts won't work for her.

I don't want to see people wondering around in exercise gear who are not exercising.

Well, that’s something you’ll just have to get over. I’m not changing after yoga so my leggings don’t offend people.

@Ofnorman

Your husband said your 12 year old daughter was 'asking for trouble?'

Ugh. What a prince.

IMO these comments are unfair. It’s just a common expression indicating that he’s evidently worried about her attracting attention from unpleasant or dangerous men.

Much as we like to think girls and women can wear whatever they like, and I do, it’s no use pretending that there aren’t some seriously unpleasant, pervy and possibly dangerous men about.

Yes, absolutely. By trouble, DH means attention, not physical attack, which DD probably doesn't see as trouble at all.

If an adult woman went out dressed like that she'd be looking for male attention surely? You can argue all you like that it's the men at fault, but some women do dress for attention seeking sake.

Ugh! Check your internalised misogyny

@Bretoony

If an adult woman went out dressed like that she'd be looking for male attention surely? You can argue all you like that it's the men at fault, but some women do dress for attention seeking sake.

Ugh! Check your internalised misogyny

Ok, so when women talk about killer heels and looking hot, they're doing it for.....?

Ok, so when women talk about killer heels and looking hot, they're doing it for.....?

Themselves

Yet again, on Mumsnet, the man is the dickhead because 'women should be able to wear what they want'.

Give him a break! He's right. He wants to protect his pre teen daughter from being sexualised by other men. Perfectly acceptable for a dad to want to be protective.

They look like pants. Inappropriate for a 12 year old to go out in. I wouldn't let her.

[quote CutePanda]**@spongedod* Supermarket? Out for coffee? Totally fine. They are shorts. Just shorts.*

They’re tighter and shorter than normal shorts. These are “booty shorts,” the type women wear to draw attention to their bum. They’re like very tight fitting boxer shorts (knickers). I only wear these when I’m exercising!

If OP’s DD wants comfort, then she could wear cycling shorts which are tight fitting but longer, with a normal tshirt (instead of a crop top). It sounds like OP sent her daughter out in underwear.[/quote]

I agree with this. Yes they are technically shorts but girls wear these to enhance and draw attention to their arses, and to wear it with a tiny crop top I think is far too much at 12 years old to go to Costa in. Don't care if that makes me uptight but my Child wouldn't be allowed out like that. There's plenty of other shorts, skirts and dresses out there that are not completely skin tight and showing as much skin as possible.

@Bretoony

Ok, so when women talk about killer heels and looking hot, they're doing it for.....?

Themselves

Don't be ridiculous what benefit does looking hot bring to a woman other than attention? Which is absolutely find and good if that's what she wants, but don't try and pretend that in some circumstances women aren't out to attract male attention. Of course they are, it's what nature intended for a start.

@daisymill

She could walk down the road stark bollock naked and still not be asking for anything.

Your 'd'h sounds like a bit of a twat

But would you let your DD do that, @daisymill?

If not, why not?

Yet again, on Mumsnet, the man is the dickhead because 'women should be able to wear what they want'.

What’s your issue with women wearing what they want?

@FreeSpirits

That are inappropriate for a child

Is a bikini or swimsuit also inappropriate for a child?

It's just clothing.

I wish I could get away with something so tight fitting and shirt and look good in it

[quote spongedod]@DumbestBlonde

Unfortunaately, there ARE perverts around, who do see women as targets - and the clothing choices MIGHT be a part of that.

At least your user name is apt [/quote]
That's a charming thing to say. The name is ironic; with an IQ of 146 I am far fom Dumb. Except in some of my life choices.

I actually have some shorts very similar - but they are Layer 1, as seamless for riding (bikes/horses) - and even when I DID have the figure for it, I would NOT have worn out and about for Costa etc wearing them. Inf act, I come from the era of thong leotards OVER booty shorts (trained to teach aerobics way back when) - and part of the change in clothing was adding items that signified the end of the ACTIVITY. And that is one of the reasons the shorts look wrong in some way; chances are that the12yo in question was not at the gym...... Instead, at a Costa - which is just another issue.
(I posted elsewhere about a grown woman out in white cycling(-type) shorts in Tesco, without anything covering her arse, and no underwear. She looked ridiculous - and a real fashion VICTIM.)

And I stand by what I said - there ARE perverts and very dangerous men/people out there - and their actions MIGHT be triggered by the sight of girls dressed in this way. Not meant as victim-blaming, but having a bigger view than just "ah no, it's body-shaming, be free to wear whatever etc etc....."; that is just not the way the world is.

What the OP's father might have said is wrong in that it placed the blame on her, in saying that SHE is "asking for trouble".... There are other ways he could have expressed his concern from both a father's and a male perspective.

@Lilymossflower

Of course she can wear what she bloody likes.

Get her in some self defence classes if your worried about pervs. The risk is there regardless of whatever the hell she wears

Just one thing about Self Defence Classes DD did Taekwando and was shown how to break holds. Her Instructor always told her the first thing to do was run and scream and only use the stuff he taught as a last resort

[quote liveforsummer]@Branleuse do you honestly think that is a relevant comparison - too small, see through shorts that actually expose a mans penis visually to a pair of black, well fitting, non see through black running shorts on a 12 year old girl? One exposes genitals and one does not. It's the exposing of genitals that is the problem not the legs. I have no issue seeing that much of a mans legs! [/quote]
yeah i think its totally relevent. Why is it not more fashionable and comfortable for little boys to wear tiny little shorts?
When girls wear things its normal, and when boys wear something with same level of coverage, its clearly seen as homoerotic or sexualised, and yet loads of people will insist the male gaze isnt an issue.
Those shorts are really skimpy even for gym-wear. Id feel vulnerable wearing those and would feel like I was going to draw attention to myself when id rather not. When ive seen young women wearing these sort of shorts at the gym, then I almost always see plenty of men watching them and its uncomfortable, but as adults, they are likely aware of the attention and ok with it, like I would have been at that age.
We have to find a balance somewhere between some really conflicting and complicated issues, these including the sexualisation of childrens clothes, particularly girls. The sexualisation of children themselves, when the children are too young to understand and fend off advances from adults. The fact that its not the childs fault if they are accosted or approached or insulted for their choices and only ever the fault of the perpetrator, and the fact that on one hand we all try and give our kids safety messages and strategies in order to stay out of the way of predatory men. Saying dont walk in dark alleys alone at night, doesnt mean that anyone who does is at fault if they are assaulted, and saying that those shorts are too skimpy and sexy for your 12 year old to wear into town doesnt mean youre blaming them for anything. Youre just teaching them how to avoid the wrong sort of attention.
These mixed messages about clothes are so difficult for so many children who are learning how to navigate their adolescence and emerging adulthood. I found it such a headfuck at that age as an autistic teen. You just want to wear whats fashionable and comfy, but got no skills to fend the bastards off and have got no concept of stuff like sexualisation and objectification of women, and weve tried really hard to not paint men as a threat, and it can come as quite a shock.

He clearly doesn't want to discuss it with her himself though! Just wants to shunt the emotional work and bad cop shit onto you.

IMO these comments are unfair. It’s just a common expression indicating that he’s evidently worried about her attracting attention from unpleasant or dangerous men.

In this case the DH knows that she may get unwanted attention, and why, but wants OP to tell DD because he's too much of a coward to say "by the way, love, men are disgusting perverted twats sometimes and you're exactly what they like to letch at"

So apart from the antedeluvian, victim-blamey attitude he is too stupid to be able to parent his own child. As others have said: a prince of a man. FWIW: I wouldn't be entirely happy with my 12 year old going out like that and i might warn her she might get attention. But what i would definitely have been doing her whole life is creating trust with me that if anything happened she would talk to me, and to know that whatever she wears isn't an invitation to anyone to do anything or say anything inappropriate.

@PurpleDaisies

“Asking for trouble”?

Urgh. I hope you corrected your “d”h that no woman is asking to be attacked because of their clothing. An absolutely disgusting attitude.

Totally agree. Absolutely repulsive of your husband.

Girls and women never EVER “ask for trouble”, FFS. They simply want to go about their daily business.

Your DD is wearing clothes she is comfortable in.
Your husbands attitude to sexual predators though needs addressing.