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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taliban enter Kabul

999 replies

tttigress · 15/08/2021 10:01

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

OP posts:
Theythinkitsalloveritisnow · 19/08/2021 19:12

@Valorgreen Maybe less abuse of boys, but there will be plenty of abuse of girls and women. I'm not a fan of either tbh

BrozTito · 19/08/2021 20:24

Why is the 'american' in that video wearing afghan uniform? Thats before we even point out the US dont give the ANA orders. Bullshit. Its just a massive coincidence they crumbled the moment the west left is it? Joke army who'have learnt actions have consequences

BrozTito · 19/08/2021 20:27

No mntion of the evidence emerging that ANA officers surrendered for money? Never any responsibility taken is there, just vague pointing at the west. Arguing they need to do more but shouldn't be there at the same time

MrsSkylerWhite · 19/08/2021 20:41

Againstmachine

The practice has flourished since Western intervention, because we've looked the other way, but if your main worry about Afghanistan is continued paedophilia then the Taliban are far more likely to stamp it out than the West.“

By taking 12 and 13 year old “brides”?

Againstmachine · 19/08/2021 20:48

By taking 12 and 13 year old “brides”?*

I don't get your point are you swapping girls for boys it's bizzare and unacceptable.

MrsSkylerWhite · 19/08/2021 20:53

I don't get your point are you swapping girls for boys it's bizzare and unacceptable.“

No of course not!
I have a boy and a girl (or rather a woman and a man now).
But taking 12 and 13 year old girls as brides is equally sick, surely?
(Unless I misunderstood your point, in which case I apologise: I will re-read your posts)

Wheretoeattweenandteen · 19/08/2021 20:59

I find the wording odd "it flourished since western intervention"...

jasjas1973 · 19/08/2021 21:05

@BrozTito

Why is the 'american' in that video wearing afghan uniform? Thats before we even point out the US dont give the ANA orders. Bullshit. Its just a massive coincidence they crumbled the moment the west left is it? Joke army who'have learnt actions have consequences
jeez 69k deaths, all air and supply removed, what the fuck would you do, when told "Fight on and die and we will also kill all your families, surrender and go in peace"

Big an brave behind a keyboard lol!

Againstmachine · 19/08/2021 22:46

jeez 69k deaths, all air and supply removed, what the fuck would you do, when told "Fight on and die and we will also kill all your families, surrender and go in peace

You do realise at beginning of this the Afghan army was better manned, better armed and better trained and could have defeated the Taliban.

They chose not to for whatever reason.

It isn't about being big and brave behind a keyboard as it's not my homeland I am defending.

BrozTito · 19/08/2021 23:04

Are you getting paid everytime you say 69k? You're deliberately leaving out thats over 20 years and that they had an air force of 200plus planes. I went there myself thanks 'lol' (guessing youre too young to join tbf). The ANA was pathetic, wail about that fact all you like, where was the taliban's air support?

OhWhyNot · 19/08/2021 23:06

You do realise at beginning of this the Afghan army was better manned, better armed and better trained and could have defeated the Taliban

Listening to the news unfold over the last day I think this is no longer consider this a fact we can believe is true just a few days ago we could

They chose not to for whatever reason

They know some of the reasons they know some of the reasons it just wasn’t seen as a problem they wanted to deal with

It’s no shock to anyone that there was a huge amount of high level corruption

More and more senior military persons are speaking out they are who I believe before any politician (though many on both sides of the house and in America are being honest and not siding with their party)

PickUpAPepper · 19/08/2021 23:52

There are protests against the Taliban flag going on in favour of the national which is a bit odd for an army that just folded. There will be numerous loyalties and ideas being floated around and weighed in various regions and localities I expect.

OhWhyNot · 20/08/2021 00:04

It’s probably down to how safe people feel to protest against the Taliban

I think it’s down to fear for most more than loyalty to not protest agains them

jasjas1973 · 20/08/2021 06:49

@BrozTito

Are you getting paid everytime you say 69k? You're deliberately leaving out thats over 20 years and that they had an air force of 200plus planes. I went there myself thanks 'lol' (guessing youre too young to join tbf). The ANA was pathetic, wail about that fact all you like, where was the taliban's air support?
The UK and US lost a fraction of that number over 20 years, yet couldn't hold any areas. Airforce was only operational when the US looked after it, they pulled that help.

Maybe look at that leadership, both political and military if you feel the ANA was pathetic.

Plenty UK soldiers who served with ANA do not speak of this awful army you speak of.

You keep telling us all that the ANA is terrible, despite the evidence to the contrary or do you think that because they lost 69k plus many more maimed, that proves they are pathetic and lack bravery?

BrozTito · 20/08/2021 07:07

Which soldier told you that?

BrozTito · 20/08/2021 07:09

The UK , US and NATO held the majority of the country? They had far less losses due to not being heroin addicted corrupt fools

BrozTito · 20/08/2021 07:13

And fancy explaining this?

Frezia · 20/08/2021 08:05

You can't tar 300,000 people with the same brush, especially in those chaotic circumstances. Some are corrupt, some are cowards, many will have been put in an impossible situation. The fact is the allies made their position needlessly harder by withdrawing in the way they did and with deals made directly with the enemy. They were also always expected to fail anyway, just ideally a few months down the line to make the allies look less bad.

It is very hard to fight and defeat an enemy like the Taliban, especially in this kind of warfare, because they stand very little to lose. They have no infrastructure they need to defend and don't particularly care about any civilians. Armies better trained and equipped than ANA tried, failed and gave up.

Pazuzu · 20/08/2021 08:13

Not at all been managed well but you do have to ask, where the hell is the Islamic world in this matter?

Xenia · 20/08/2021 08:19

All I can say is we tried for 20 years and paid a lot (from the UK) to try to help. Also it was 1919 when Afghanistan. In 1842 the British took Kabul and Afghanistan stopped being a British Protectorate in 1919. Other countries have tried to go in there. We gave up all that original control in 1921. Now we have to keep out of it.

Yes withdrawal has caused problems but if not now then when? We need to concentrate on the people of the UK many of whom need help and money and medical care and all sorts. We are no longer an empire on which the sun never sets. This is a time to concentrate on our homeland here. It is very sad indeed that people in many countries suffer so badly, but we cannot do it all.

Peregrina · 20/08/2021 08:36

Xenia - you need to tell Johnson this. He still thinks that we have an Empire - what with sending RN ships to the Black Sea and the South China Sea to tell the Russkies and the Chinese how big his bollock are.

FOJN · 20/08/2021 08:48

The more I see the more convinced I am that the chaos is intentional. It's inconceivable that the US military are so incompetent that they could not organise the evacuation of US citizens and allies.

The Biden administration was told repeatedly this would happen, they were not caught with their pants down as they would have us believe. The Afghan Army were set up to fail, they could not hold the Taliban without US Air support, which was withdrawn.

Too many decisions have been made which run in opposition to logic if your intention was to leave the country and safely evacuate everyone you were obliged to get out. The Taliban harboured terrorists who seek to destroy the west, why the fuck would you take them at their word with regard to a peaceful transition of power.

There are many other questions which raised by the decisions taken by the Biden administration.

Why are they unable/unwilling to give figures for the exact number of people who need to be evacuated?
Why was the evacuation of US citizens and allies left until after most of the military had been withdrawn?
Why were they not give clear instructions for the evacuation plan?
Why has the US military left so much hardware for the Taliban to commandeer?
Why was Bagram Airbase abandoned to the Taliban?
Why has the military not retained control of other airfields to give them more options for managing the evacuation?
How have the remaining military ended up corralled in Kabul Airport, where they are sitting ducks and unable to increase their perimeter to ensure safe passage to those who need to evacuate?

I'm not a military strategist but there are some glaring errors there. I would have thought hope for the best, plan for the worst was a better strategy.

I wonder what the end game is, follow the money is usually a good suggestion but the only ideas I have seem batshit crazy.

notimagain · 20/08/2021 09:16

@FOJN

It's inconceivable that the US military are so incompetent that they could not organise the evacuation of US citizens and allies.

There’s plenty of blame to go around but that is more than slightly unfair.

They can’t do the impossible and the situation the US military are trying to cope with is a direct result of decisions, mainly those on timings and ongoing support for the ANA, that were made by the politicians….

mrshoho · 20/08/2021 09:29

It does seems as though the deal was done months/years ago to hand back Afghanistan to the Taliban. When you hear these Western leaders they admit that it was inevitable. The Taliban obviously didn't keep to their agreement of the timeline and are laughing their heads off seeing the chaotic scramble to evacuate.

Yet again the people have been shat on and history repeats. It feels as though groups of men have been allowed to play armies with their toys and on a whim moved on to new toys. Bloody men all over the world causing misery. That goes for the medieval Taliban right through to our supposedly civil Western leaders.

I read The Kiterunner years ago and although a fiction novel I learned more about the intricacies of this country from reading it than from any news article. It makes me think how those desperate people at the airport are the privileged few out of a country of millions.

PickUpAPepper · 20/08/2021 09:35

Does't it just. US involvement in the near and middle east / central asia regions has been nothing short of catastrophic, for decades. I really don't understand why UK keeps following the US around like a lapdog.

www.francenews.net/news/270782518/not-a-lot-to-show-for-2-trillion-worth-of-intervention-in-afghanistan