Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

Henry Kissinger said a long time ago: "It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."

@Xenia

The UK did most of its troop withdrawal in about 2014 and although the US decision of Obama to withdraw, followed by Trump and now Biden has in the last week led to a quicker Taliban take over than expected, this is simply the best for the US/UK of two difficult options. Every man woman and child in the UK has paid £2000 of tax over 20 years for this conflict. We should have stayed out 20 years ago, never mind in the 1800s. We cannot police the world. Now we need to concentrate here -as LadyA says there is much we can help with in the UK such as abuse of child. Now is the time for the UK to concentrate on spending money and resources on the 67m people of the UK many of whom are in dire need.

I am obviously very sorry for those in Afghanistan who have suffered so badly under Islam and I hope we can protect women and girls in the UK from any religion that results in them not being treated equally.

Thats so "pull the ladder up..."

We have the issues (you mention) in this country because of selfish & self centred government, not because we spent a few billion in Afghan.

Al Qaeda were in Afghanistan, 3000 people killed by them in NY, what on earth should we have done? given them a badge! :(

Anyway, the sterling cost is far far lower, thought to be around 22 billion, not the 132 billion your calc comes too.

But yes his view was said with clarity - a couple of days ago on R4 morning radio if you want to hear it. Maybe you’d disbelieve it which is fine

Politicians lie, i listened to Biden, i half expected his nose to come out through the TV screen.

Of course they have to paint this in a some what positive light, as our PM has tried to make out too but its a complete disaster, as many MPs including (previously) loyal tory ones have said.

@jasjas1973

But yes his view was said with clarity - a couple of days ago on R4 morning radio if you want to hear it. Maybe you’d disbelieve it which is fine

Politicians lie, i listened to Biden, i half expected his nose to come out through the TV screen.

Of course they have to paint this in a some what positive light, as our PM has tried to make out too but its a complete disaster, as many MPs including (previously) loyal tory ones have said.

Did you not read the rest of the post?

He was criticising Biden.

There was no positive spin on it.

Interesting that now the reality is sinking in.

That people are forming acts of protest against them. Obviously it's taken them by surprise too, so sad.. Without weapons what can they do now.

@MarshaBradyo My apologises, mis read what you were saying

Just watching sky news and the british officer asked to make a life and death decision on an afghan woman and child - he allowed her into the airport.
than the child lifted across a wall and uk paras take her across.

A afghan female dr, no papers, can't get in, fears she will now be killed.

US saying they may not be able to get out all the remaining 10k Americans in Kabul, the UK will have to follow.

Heart breaking and shameful we ve done this.

I don't get the "we didn't know this would happen" stuff, when this was announced a few weeks ago, an ex Marine i know said the ANA will fold within days once the yanks withdraw air support, also some eu countries told the US this would happen.... Raab was on the Easyjet site at the time.

Arguably Al Q did 9/11 because the West interfered abroad though. I certainly don't blame the West of course for 9/11 -0 the blame lies with the murderers but getting out of there is in my view the best thing we can do for the people of the UK and USA.

We did the right thing to withdraw.

If not now then when?

Apologies I remem bered the £2000 incorrectly. It is £2000 per household in the UK, not per person ]www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/30/afghanistan-war-cost-britain-37bn-book
I wish we got a choice about this kind of thing. I would rather the £2k per household went to the Sunderland/NE area where I am from where people need investment and jobs or rural Northumberland or Northern Ireland or Wales (never mind repairing the pot holes in the dreadful neglected roads where I live) or dealing with online scammers.

I think it was expected to be at least months, but ended up with days and weeks. Sadly every hour has counted.

I have saw the thread lady who is said she was married to terrorist talib who was attacking her, she begged to be let through with her child and said she would go anywhere.

Then she was allowed through and was hugged and told she was safe but is she??

That was what worries me, obviously a huge leap to get through into the airport but is she safe now??
Can she get help she said she would go anywhere and she has a letter from the un saying she is at risk.

If every girl forcibly married could get such a letter of that gives them access that would be a help...

"US saying they may not be able to get out all the remaining 10k Americans in Kabul, the UK will have to follow."

TEN THOUSAND jasjas

Jesus.

Do we know how many British citizens are still there?

Or how many Afghan nationals who have worked with us and for us for the last 20 years who are facing certain death for that?

I'm not a person who's usually stuck for words - but, this is going to be baaaaaaad.

@Xenia

Apologies I remem bered the £2000 incorrectly. It is £2000 per household in the UK, not per person ]www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/30/afghanistan-war-cost-britain-37bn-book I wish we got a choice about this kind of thing. I would rather the £2k per household went to the Sunderland/NE area where I am from where people need investment and jobs or rural Northumberland or Northern Ireland or Wales (never mind repairing the pot holes in the dreadful neglected roads where I live) or dealing with online scammers.

£20 billion is 1% of our gdp in a year, it was spread over 20 !

Its a tiny amount and consider this, we didn't didn't spend that money pre 2001, yet still had crap roads and badly insulated houses.

UK Govt aren't interested in leveling up you or i, just levelling up their friends to even greater heights.

You mean like every government pretty much in the entire world jas jas.

I am quite sure that Boris Johnson has already siphoned off that sort of money to his wealthy chums with the various Covid contracts. So let's not have any crocodile tears about how we can no longer afford it. We can't afford to go throwing away service men and women's lives for no good reason though.

What are we doing to our troops who are having to make this life or death decisions on who can get through? People begging for their lives and their children's lives. It's inhumane and others have said, this is in good part on us.

Who does not need to apply
You do not need to apply if you have:

indefinite leave to enter or remain in the UK
Irish citizenship (including British and Irish ‘dual citizenship’)
a Frontier Worker permit, or you’re eligible for one, as long as you continue living outside the UK while working here
You cannot apply if you have British citizenship.

This is from the gov website.

Sorry!

Wrong thread.

[quote LadyAria]@Theythinkitsalloveritisnow

We don't have misogyny and child rape in the UK? 🤔🤔🤔

Far from ideal but I think this is the case throughout the whole world. Name me a country that doesn't have misogyny or child rape? Women live through it no matter what background, race, country, religion they come from. But I guess some of us are more real about it than others... I mean, the me too movement of the West is kind of a reflection of this... 🤔

Afghanistan like any other country has its faults but also its beauty. Deserves to be in peace though regardless of the atrocious acts of a few?[/quote]
Of course we do. But not on the same scale, no, and they are things that are , officially at least, frowned upon.

Try googling bacha baze. It is horrible tho so be warned.

@Theythinkitsalloveritisnow
@LadyAria

I’ll never forget this article I read. It deeply disturbed me

www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

I think it was expected to be at least months, but ended up with days and weeks.

I'm not sure this is true. Senior people in US intelligence and the military are claiming they have been warning for months that the situation was deteriorating and they had little confidence that the Afghan army could hold the Taliban back. This does not look like a failure of intelligence services or the Afghan Army.

It was inevitable the Taliban would take power when troops were withdrawn but reckless decision making and poor planning have created the current crisis.

Here's a link to a bbc article about it for anyone interested in a specific part of the beautiful Afghan culture
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11217772

Hope the link works, I haven't tried including a link in a post before

Here's a link to a bbc article about it for anyone interested in a specific part of the beautiful Afghan culture
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11217772

Hope the link works, I haven't tried including a link in a post before

@Theythinkitsalloveritisnow the Taliban are vehemently opposed to bacha bazi and outlawed the practice when they were last in power, with typically Talibanesq punishments for those caught. Outrage over the practice was apparently one of key factors in Muhammed Omar mobilising the Taleban in the first place.

The practice has flourished since Western intervention, because we've looked the other way, but if your main worry about Afghanistan is continued paedophilia then the Taliban are far more likely to stamp it out than the West.

@Xenia

The UK did most of its troop withdrawal in about 2014 and although the US decision of Obama to withdraw, followed by Trump and now Biden has in the last week led to a quicker Taliban take over than expected, this is simply the best for the US/UK of two difficult options. Every man woman and child in the UK has paid £2000 of tax over 20 years for this conflict. We should have stayed out 20 years ago, never mind in the 1800s. We cannot police the world. Now we need to concentrate here -as LadyA says there is much we can help with in the UK such as abuse of child. Now is the time for the UK to concentrate on spending money and resources on the 67m people of the UK many of whom are in dire need.

I am obviously very sorry for those in Afghanistan who have suffered so badly under Islam and I hope we can protect women and girls in the UK from any religion that results in them not being treated equally.

They didn’t suffer under Islam, as you put it. They suffered under a corrupt regime. There is always power, corruption and personal gain at play. It’s called politics. In the same way as a political arrangement has brought the Taliban back into power and western governments will be working with them.

The practice has flourished since Western intervention, because we've looked the other way, but if your main worry about Afghanistan is continued paedophilia then the Taliban are far more likely to stamp it out than the West.

I'm not so sure the Taliban will stamp out paedophilia as I'm sure many of there members will be abusing there newly liberated pre and pubescent women.