Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

I have just seen on the news a group of women protesting in Kabul

Their bravery is incredible

The Taliban know all eyes are on them at present but it won’t be long until this isn’t the case maybe the focus needs to stay there as it’s one way to support women and girls

It could have been worse. At least not everyone trying to escape was killed, like in 1842 when the entire Raj army in Afghanistan plus their families were slaughtered in the snow.

As for China: they'll enjoy watching Western embarrassment, but I don't think they'll welcome Taliban control of Afghanistan given the genocide being perpetrated on Muslims in Xinjiang, just over the mountains. The cynic in me thinks that the Americans want out because they realised they were doing a job that the Chinese would have to do if they weren't there.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

You really couldn't make it up - seems Labour MP Richard Burgon's now calling for "reparations" to be paid to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, and that's on top of the billions already spent

What was I saying about an opportunity for the Taliban to pocket yet more money ...?

How do these people get into Parliament? There seem to be a lot of silly British politicians these days in all sides of politics.

Johnson, Corbyn, Foster, Butler etc.. just silly, querulous people who belong in a game show, not Parliament. Even Sturgeon isn't all that.

This is the concern of the west this isn’t just about Afghanistan it’s the knock on effect and if the Taliban will want to have influence in other countries high on their success this is something to be expected

The Taliban, so I've read, are Pashtun (the majority ethnic group in Afghanistan) and the Pashtun in general have always supported them, on the basis that they were preferable to the warlords who came before.

The Taliban are not interested in ruling anywhere else. The question is whether they give safe haven to terrorist groups that operate abroad. Apparently the relationship between the Taliban and al-Qaida wasn't that great.

As you say it'll doubtless be back to business as usual for them soon enough (and some will insist that's all the west's fault too)

Well, yes.
a few 1000 US troops, aghans doing the fighting, taliban held off... now look at the place.
As you say, BAU will soon resume, many 1000s of westerners still in Kabul.

fwiw Burgens tweet was stupid but he was in fact calling for humanitarian aid to help refugees - perhaps more worrying is he doesn't appear to know what reparation means.

@DuncinToffee

Raab has been spotted, he has been threatening the Taliban with sanctions and overseas aid cuts.

The "stop or I'll say 'stop' again" strategy.

I think Raab is wishing he stayed on holiday, he and his boss are having a torrid time in parliament right now, and not just from the opposition.

It seems like they're already breaking their "promise" to let people leave Afghanistan without violence.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/18/afghanistan-reports-emerge-of-taliban-beating-afghans-seeking-to-flee-kabul

TomPinch but the Taliban need money to rule over Afghanistan. They have a lot of support in Pakistan training up terrorists isn’t going to gain enough money

Their power now and their influence is a concern for all countries in the area and one of the biggest oil abs gas rich countries

[quote FlowerPower3110]It seems like they're already breaking their "promise" to let people leave Afghanistan without violence.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/18/afghanistan-reports-emerge-of-taliban-beating-afghans-seeking-to-flee-kabul[/quote]
Sadly no surprise there..

Some of the the debate, in Parliament and elsewhere, about setting priorities for who gets out of Kabul sounds more than slightly naive…..

Yes the US and others control the airport itself but it appears from what we are hearing that the Taliban control road/pedestrian access to the airport, and are also probably also in a position to severely compromise or stop any movement by air.

The realpolitik here is that the best we can hope for is that at some level agreement has been struck at some level that allows as many civilians as possible to be extracted before the Taliban call a halt.

I’m not sure we can be as selective as some people appear to think we can be.

Its idiotic, hold the airport with marines, evacuate all you can then sort them later. Fuck what far right scum think. Women and children should be a priority but young men always go as a Vanguard in these situations

Its quite remarkable, tory mp after tory mp saying things i whole heartedly agree with.

As Duncan Smith just said China now knows that the West will not step in and save Taiwan, the Chinese now say the same thing.

I wonder if the Russians now think they can bully Europe, safe in the knowledge the USA will abandon their allies.

Im cool with that. Dont fancy ww3 myself

Its quite remarkable, tory mp after tory mp saying things i whole heartedly agree with.

It is.
As said on Sky News
Some of the strongest attacks on the government during this debate have come not from the opposition benches, but from the Tory backbenches, led by ex-army officers like IDS.

I don't think I have ever agreed with so many conservatives in all my life before.

But after all this, will they do anything that will make the blindest bit of difference now? I don't think New Tories are capable of listening to anything longer than a 3 word slogan.

Im hoping to god this is the end of Britain following the US around sniffing its arse like a dog.

Anyway now is the perfect time to negotiate with the taliban and say we will invest and help build the country with all military out. Good way to get them to prevent terrorism and stop human rights abuses if they know billions depends on it. We do still have leverage. I reckon the taliban seem cautious atm because theyre out in the open where western air power would obliterate them.

@jasjas1973

Its quite remarkable, tory mp after tory mp saying things i whole heartedly agree with.

As Duncan Smith just said China now knows that the West will not step in and save Taiwan, the Chinese now say the same thing.

I wonder if the Russians now think they can bully Europe, safe in the knowledge the USA will abandon their allies.

You say this like it's a new thing. Remember the Kurds in 2019? Abandoned by their allies the US to a humanitarian disaster. South Vietnam, etc. This is the US modus operandi and it's not a secret either.

I reckon the taliban seem cautious atm because theyre out in the open where western air power would obliterate them.

Ah, “bomb them back to the Stone Age”……that rings a bell.

That didn’t work for twenty years when they were relatively out in the open, it’s not going to happen now that they are actually in Kabul and other metropolitan areas in significant numbers.

The Taliban can be cautious at the moment because they are getting what they want.

.

If anything, the US dipping in and out of Middle East and Asia as it fits them is their excercise of power over Europe. During and after every such campaign millions of migrants and refugees flee towards neighbouring countries and Europe... not the US. It's not them who have to deal with the human aftermath of their campaigns.

I wonder if the Russians now think they can bully Europe, safe in the knowledge the USA will abandon their allies.
Russia already knew

news.sky.com/story/events-in-afghanistan-could-hardly-have-played-out-in-a-better-way-for-russia-12383629

It worked in 2001. Bombed them out of power whether you agree with the morality or not

Yep very good point Frezia