Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

I read elsewhere that there probably was Intelligence on the ground saying that the Taliban advance would be swift, but that the Politicians didn't want to know because it was unpalatable to them, so turned a deaf ear.

Meanwhile our FS continues to sip cocktails somewhere. Our PM is just embarrass the subject. No wonder they wanted the defence secretary to be interviewed instead.

Luckily there is still internet, they still have good medical resources and food/water available. Hoping they can continue to fly planes out until most are safe. I’m not sure how long they will allow departures to continue though.

They should have trained and armed 350,000 women instead of the men
And I am not being flippant

A bit difficult, perhaps, when a significant number of them aren't allowed to work ... and that was before the Taliban took over

@meditrina

Like you I have heard zero reports of a “Herc” being brought down but there has been either a shoot down and/or a mid air collision involving the loss of a Afghan fighter, type not verified, which had crossed the Uzbek border.

The Uzbeks have been accepting defecting flights.

Raab has been spotted, he has been threatening the Taliban with sanctions and overseas aid cuts.

@DuncinToffee

Raab has been spotted, he has been threatening the Taliban with sanctions and overseas aid cuts.

I'm sure they're crapping themselves at his bold show of strength.

@PicsInRed I know, it’s the arrogance isn’t it? As if the Taliban will give a shit about Dominic Raab’s opinion!

It’s going to be embarrassing if the Taliban point out he’s forgotten we’ve already cut the overseas aid.

Yes even more cuts to educating girls.

Educating girls, global vaccine programs reducing the likelihood of eliminating some child hood diseases, a ton of soft power and influence...

It’s been an enormous success.

A bit difficult, perhaps, when a significant number of them aren't allowed to work ... and that was before the Taliban took over

If I wrote down my thoughts on that I would probably be deleted.

@LemonSwan

A bit difficult, perhaps, when a significant number of them aren't allowed to work ... and that was before the Taliban took over

If I wrote down my thoughts on that I would probably be deleted.

Quite.

There's a thread which resenting had the OP collating suggestions for how to try to support Afghani women here. If anyone's feeling equally despairing, and searching ways to try to help even a little.

Al jazeera said a hercules but it was hours ago. Women were allowed in the army and there were some.

@DuncinToffee

Raab has been spotted, he has been threatening the Taliban with sanctions and overseas aid cuts.

Now he’s saying we’re increasing aid to afghanistan by 10%. That’s after we already cut it by 78% obviously. I’m sure the taliban are quaking in their boots.?

This article has been linked on other threads, it is worth a read
www.cnbc.com/2021/08/16/how-afghanistan-fell-to-the-taliban-so-quickly.html

The Chinese will build hospitals, school, homes, roads in exchange for mineral rights. Raab knows this.

Today I am looking a photos of foreign diplomats and Afghan national sitting with their luggage waiting to board flights.
Yesterday there was videos of women outside the airport begging them to take their children. Not them their children and today the select few will fly out with their luggage. Every suitcase is a space that could have been occupied by a child but no their suits and shirts must be saved over children.

It's rare for me not to have words, but I don't. It seems like the start of something that will be so horrific, traumatic and will change the course of history and will disproportionately impact the lives of women and girls for generations.

I saw a post from a UK serviceman that included the Afghans he worked with, turns out this weekend those interpreters and field specialists were rounded up and killed. I am worried they will all be abandoned and the ones still alive won't have a chance.

It's just dreadful.

Video in link

Brave Afghan women protesting for their rights in Kabul. “Work, education and political participation is every woman’s right”
twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1427594136689987591?s=19

I guess a big part of the issue is that the Afghan “army” is made up of young men.
The Afghan army kidnaps, rapes and kills young boys. The Taliban army recruits them and they will prosper?
The Afghan army are the “bad guys” as far as the civilians are concerned.
We should have been training the young girls to form an army all along. They are the ones that lose out now? Women can work machinery, pull a trigger, fight of the Taliban while the men worked to get money to eat.

@ItStartedWithAKiss241

The more I think about it the more I think this would have been the only solution. I dont know why all these analysts paid to think this stuff through didnt realise it.

Those brave women protesting in Kabul. They clearly have the balls.
The women on twitter who say their cousins are carrying suicide poision - they would have risked their lives to fend off the Taliban.

And I have been watching 'This is what winning looks like' - Its a shit show from the word go. Besides the drugs, child rape, corruption etc - The afghan men had no respect for the west. The western soldiers were trying desperately to train these men. To tell them not to shoot wildly 'to show power' but to actually sit and wait to see 'Taliban' before they shoot. They were calling them idiots and after 5 minutes of shooting wildly into the air were complaining they had no bullets left and had no sense of the concept of irony.

Its all a man problem - fragile male egos, misogyny, outrageous sense of entitlement, selfishness, wanting power and utter stupidity.

Anecdotally, I stress purely anecdotally, I have heard returning soldiers say the Afghans were lazy, cowardly and impossible to train. I realise that’s not PC and nobody is going to go public and say it but I think there’s something in it. And the desperate people scrambling onto planes? Don’t tell me lots of them didn’t see a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for economic migration. Visa-free travel to the US? It’s a golden ticket out of the that hell hole.

@ApplyWithin

Its the heroin. MN can delete this if they want because its not PC - But I genuinely think lots of the men are brain damaged.

Cause and effect is not difficult for humans to understand - tiny children understand it, even animals. How these Afghan police think they can rape 'chai boys' and not literally be laying the foundation for their own demise in 5-10 years is beyond comprehension.

I genuinely believe they have no working brain cells left

@Stealbee

Unfortunately there isn't really a solution, not a palatable one anyway. The last 20 years haven't been a waste overall, they gave hope, provided training, infrastructure, equipment, education- but I suppose the question is at what point do you resign yourself in intervention of foreign troops to 'keep the place' at a huge financial commitment, and at what point do you say we have provided what we can to equip the army, but it's still not working and realistically nothing we do is going to fundamentally change a country that has been this way for centuries. What would a slower withdrawal have really achieved?

Yes, this is what I don't understand

How are we meant to help them when they don't seem to want to be helped? We've spent 20 years doing what exactly???? And the minute our back is turned they're back to their old ways

They don't want to live like people in the west, so why try and force them to?

I genuinely don't get it