Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

@DuncinToffee

Not sure if this has been shared, a twitter thread on how quick it all happened

twitter.com/aahmady/status/1427265049668636674?s=19
1/The collapse of the Government in Afghanistan this past week was so swift and complete - it was disorienting and difficult to comprehend.

This is how the events seemed to proceed from my perspective as Central Bank Governor.

That's stunning.

@Againstmachine

The Afghan army was better equipped, trained and manned better than the Taliban, a lot of this is on them.

Once...again, 66,000 afghan soldiers have died fighting the Taliban - they lost their allies, their support and resupply.

they and their families threatened with execution if they resisted.

anyway, looks like the biggest intelligence failure of the 'west perhaps ever.

Once...again, 66,000 afghan soldiers have died fighting the Taliban - they lost their allies, their support and resupply.

66,000 since the west withdrew?

Not a single woman or girl in any of that footage at the airports. Just something I noticed

@sst1234

Women’s rights are a peripheral issue to the diabolical poverty faced by most Afghans. I know that will be an unpopular opinion but it’s true. Saudis don’t flee Saudi Arabia because they want freedom. Freedom doesn’t put food on the table or clothes on your children’s backs. This freedom narrative is a bleeding heart attitude from people who have never lived in or understood these societies.

Wars don’t change culture. Economic prosperity does. The only way to stop people oppressing each other is to make sure they have enough resources to have a stake in society and much to lose if they engage in violence. The last 20 years have been dire in Afghanistan in terms of building this resilience. The most unbelievably corrupt people were installed in power. So corrupt that it would make you weep if you knew how they were plundering their own country men and women. Most people fleeing are trying to get away from the dire economic situation. The singles best thing that can happen to Afghans now is if China makes a play for proxy power and continues its agenda if praising colonization through bringing infrastructure projects to Afghanistan to consolidate its position in Central Asia.

Hello Xi

How are you doing? I agree economic prosperity is key. Those Taliban commanders need to update their battlefield technology, Huawei is the way to go.

@mouldygrape my thoughts exactly. I was disheartened at the behaviour of those selfish men trying to pile on to that plane; if they had any decency they would have been pushing their wives and daughters forward, not themselves.

*Once...again, 66,000 afghan soldiers have died fighting the Taliban - they lost their allies, their support and resupply."

Even after that there is still enough to hold the country.

Many are cowards look at the airport's it's men trying to leave , leaving women behind.

I don't agree it is an intelligence failure of the West. We have simply had enough and spent enough over 20 years and we chose the best of two bad options. We knew the Taliban might well take over. The fact it has been done without too much killing so far is probably better than months of fighting and death. I believe the Afghan government despite the £2000 every man woman and child in the Uk has paid towards this conflict has not been paying soldiers so not surprisingly they gave up. We now need to leave the nation to itself. We have tried. We have not managed and there it is. The US/UK/EU cannot always be the world's police man. Now we need to concentrate on the poor in the UK and try to help those at home.

'Now we need to concentrate on the poor in the UK and try to help those at home.'

Lovely. Except those at home will now likely include thousands of refugees from Afghanistan.

I absolutely agree the ongoing withdrawal was needed but this end stage seems to have been totally rushed. Why on earth did Biden think the taliban wouldn't take control swiftly? Why is there such chaos at the airport. Surely with all the intelligence they have this situation was totally predictable.

Women’s rights are a peripheral issue to the diabolical poverty faced by most Afghans.

I thought women's rights - particularly the right to education- were absolutely key to combating poverty and helping countries to develop towards long term prosperity and stability, not some airy fairy nice-to-have optional extra twiddly bit of icing on the cake.

www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2011/09/22/getting-to-equal-how-educating-every-girl-can-help-break-the-cycle-of-poverty

It is atrocious what is happening right now.
I look at my two young children and I can’t comprehend the appalling situation Afghan children will now face, the sheer terror mothers must be feeling.
It makes me want to weep.

He is live now

I just can't stop reading news channels and watching the video footage.

It upsets and shocks me - not because I'm enjoying it. But because it's so hard to comprehend other humans suffering such tragedy and not even getting the basics we take for granted.

I'm also currently listening to Girl Taken on BBC sounds. It's about an Afghan refugee father and quite an eye opener.

@mouldygrape

Not a single woman or girl in any of that footage at the airports. Just something I noticed

I watched the Channel 4 news and there were women present, they were standing/waiting in the background rather than running and jumping towards the leaving plane.

I don't agree it is an intelligence failure of the West.

I think the speed with which the Taliban took over classes as an Intelligence failure. But otherwise, yes I agree, we needed to get out. As for being the world's policemen - the Afghans didn't ask us to be that for them, it's a role we chose.

For Britain at least history should have taught us better. For the USA - it's yet another ignominious defeat to add to Vietnam.

A huge afghan hercules plane carrying god knows who or what has been downed by uzbekistan. 66,000 have died in the recent offensive according to who?

And do you mean casualties instead of deaths? Not the same thing

@mouldygrape

Not a single woman or girl in any of that footage at the airports. Just something I noticed

https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1427368962287980547?s=21

This is an incredible photo and very positive, but my first thought at looking at it was the disproportionate male/female ratio. There are a lot of kids visible though and where children are, women usually are - it's hard to see the detail in the back of the plane

Pleased to see these people have been able to escape.

I've been consumed by this news today and cannot quite fathom that this is real life elsewhere in the world. So distressing to watch and it doesn't look as though there is any early solution to this problem. Feel so helpless.

EU warned the Americans to leave with care in July or the Taliban will take over very quickly.

Didn't the french also tell the British there were no WMDs in Iraq?

Even after that there is still enough to hold the country.

A lot of people there don't view Afghanistan as their country to defend though. Afghanistan, as it is, was only formed in the late 1800s and it's culture/population is incredibly complex and diverse. There's something like 14 distinct ethno-linguistic groups and god know how many individual tribes, all of which have their own distinct cultures and no real ties to the concept of Afghanistan as a country.

The Pashtuns for example, historically lived in an area that straddles southernAfghanistanand northwesternPakistan for thousands of years. Then a hundred odd years ago the British decided to draw a line down the middle of the their tribal area and split it in two but the Pashtuns don't recognise this as their official border and thousands move between the two countries.

It would be like drawing a line across Central Scotland and saying, right you lot south of Dundee are now English, go fight and die for England.

And that's before you even start to factor in all the other issues like poverty, corruption and religion.

@BrozTito

A huge afghan hercules plane carrying god knows who or what has been downed by uzbekistan. 66,000 have died in the recent offensive according to who?

www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/afghan-military-jet-crashes-uzbekistan-report-2021-08-16/

Not a herc?

And yes, the Uzbeks have been preventing Afghan military personnel leaving, detaining them at the border and apparently being in talks with the Taliban about their future.

Even though it's quite likely the planes were simply taken by those who wanted to get out (reports of talib executions of SF have begin to circulate; it won't be just them in the firing line), I can see why the Uzbeks would not want an unexpected overflight originating from a volatile area.

There are lots of woman children at the airport.
There are plenty of men begging for their wives and children to be given safe passage.

They should have trained and armed 350,000 women instead of the men.

And I am not being flippant.