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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taliban enter Kabul

999 replies

tttigress · 15/08/2021 10:01

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

OP posts:
animaginativeusername · 16/08/2021 14:16

@Idontknowwhat2

I think its hideous. Remember that the Afghan national army heavily outnumbered the Taliban but from what I see they just let them take over.

I'm horrified for the women and children, but the overall lack of resistance to the Taliban must show Afghans are majority in favour of their barbaric ways?

I think majority are not in favour of taliban, and would like to live. Plus with no government as president has ran, there wasn't much the military could do. USA/UK maybe didn't achieve their full target of securing oil reserve, there goal had never been to give the country any stability but to cash in on its instability
UsedUpUsername · 16/08/2021 14:19

@Panickingpavlova

I can't ever understand the arguments of sending men first?

My dh would never leave us and its probably me who in this situation would be more able to get us out.

My dh would never leave us and our daughters to the evil gruesome fate of the taliban

I think it's hard for us to understand how little power these women have.

It’s just mental gymnastics on their part. Obviously no one serious wants young men of unknown provenance in their country.

Very few would question vulnerable girls being brought to safe havens.

Panickingpavlova · 16/08/2021 14:19

I don't understand pics.

If your left behind that's probably what will happen.

You will starve and or be married off or punished for the the men folks leaving.

The women have just a good a chance as anyone else to get away.

lllllllllll · 16/08/2021 14:20

I like(d?) Joe Biden but flipping heck, this is a fuck-up of monumental proportions.

I just can't see how they didn't see this coming.

OhWhyNot · 16/08/2021 14:23

I actually find it really distasteful how so many effectively dehumanise these people by suggesting they are lesser beings than us, who feel no love for their families

I agree PicsInRed choices are been made that none of us will thankfully never have to make. Do you choose to get your son out who if they have been involved in the government military faces certain death or your daughter who will be married off young but may herself have children

These choices being made are about survival not what would be a nicer future

Window1 · 16/08/2021 14:23

@Idontknowwhat2

BBC reports Taliban fighters of around 60,000. Afghan army, trained over the last 20 years and with Western weaponry numbered 300,000. The reports I've read say most of the national army just rolled over and didn't bother fighting.

I think there's plenty to show that a lot of Afghans support the Taliban, which is horrendous for the women and children.

The army should have been able to defend the area if they wanted to. The Taliban were outnumbered. It does give the impression that the army are open to being ruled by the Taliban.

I really don't know much at all about this, but if the Taliban are the bad guys, why would the army allow them in to take over?

lllllllllll · 16/08/2021 14:23

I'd rather my brother got out and kept us fed until he could hopefully get us out from abroad, than that, best case scenario, he was shot in the street, my boy children slaughtered or starved, my girl children "married" hmm off at 12, and I was forcibly married to a Talib fighter and taken to the hills to be raped and breed for the rest of my natural life.

@PicsInRed I don't understand your logic. All of that will happen anyway, and is surely even more likely to happen if the women are left alone and vulnerable.

jasjas1973 · 16/08/2021 14:24

@alondra

I do not support our trade and defense co-op with Saudi but whats the alternative?
Allow Russia or China to influence the Saudi's?

Its bit like Libya Iraq or Syria - we give tacit support to some pretty horrible regimes or we break them up, and have decades of civil war, death and terrorism - as we have seen.

We should seek to influence the Saudi's to slowly change their ways because to allow the place to self destruct would be even worse, war is rarely the best option.

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 14:24

I mean negotiate as in offering infrastructure investment etc. even with taliban rule

Alondra · 16/08/2021 14:25

@paepoyrol

No. It's better to keep supporting Saudi Arabia with money and arms while looking the other way to their undemocratic practices and their support in their war against the West. As long as America have "something" to gain, America will support them even if a few thousands of Americans were killed on the September 11 attacks.

The UK pop look the other way too though. The money that floods into the London property market that boosts prices keeps many happy.

Most countries in the West have looked the other way, specially the UK. All our countries have a share of the shambles in Afghanistan today but most specially the US.

Frankly as an European I've had enough of following american foreign policy. It's crap and causing enormous damage outside their borders.

FlowerPower3110 · 16/08/2021 14:27

"my boy children slaughtered or starved, my girl children "married" off at 12, and I was forcibly married to a Talib fighter and taken to the hills to be raped and breed for the rest of my natural life."

PicsInRed isn't that exactly what's going to happen when the men flee and leave their wives and children behind?

Why shouldn't the women try and leave the country together with their husbands?

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 14:28

I actually nnoticed the taliban were holding their rifles in a US fashion, obviouly already had some training from defectors.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/08/2021 14:28

Obviously no one serious wants young men of unknown provenance in their country

I know you added the "anyone serious" caveat, but worryingly there are plenty who'd do exactly that - you only have to read the facile assumptions that "they must be desperate to have come"

Without doubt some are desperate and most of us naturally want to help, but it might be wise to first have a better idea of who's who rather than assuming that the contents of all stories are necessarily true

jasjas1973 · 16/08/2021 14:29

The Taliban number around 60k is from the USA intelligence agencies, the same ones who told Biden they couldn't take over Afghanistan - i think the intel on the Taliban is sadly very wrong.

I have every sympathy for the Afghan army, you see your ally leave, no certainty of being re armed or supported, face certain death if you resist and told your families will be killed.... not an easy decision to make.....

Window1 · 16/08/2021 14:33

@shekamboo

Honestly, my auntie in Kabul just reassured me everything is fine, she's still at work, taliban have been in the office checking hijabi is observed. All her daughters finished uni exams last week and at home safe and sound.

Media lies

So what is it that the Taliban want? How have they remained so strong over all these years, where have they been biding their time to this point?

paepoyrol · 16/08/2021 14:33

@Alondra it needs a global solution though

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 14:33

Yeah you're right not im again, theres a reason they usually use unbreakable old Russian weapons with vast stocks. Even the M16s they've now nicked are less reliable than AK74s and use different ammo they cant get. Dont think we need to worry. ISIS stole this gear from the iraq army but couldnt use it

lllllllllll · 16/08/2021 14:33

I predict that as a result of this catastrophic decision, the west will eventually be left with no option but to go back into Afghanistan. We'll have to start from square one and hundreds more lives will be lost

lllllllllll · 16/08/2021 14:34

where have they been biding their time to this point?

Pakistan?

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 14:35

Thhe Taliban have ben sending women home from work. Massive disconnect between what their leaders say/order and what those on the ground do.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/08/2021 14:41

Where have (the Taliban) been biding their time to this point?
Pakistan?

Well, it's where they found Bin Laden, living merely yards from a military academy - except of course the military claimed to have no idea he was there Hmm

But then of course Pakistan, like Saudi Arabia, is still believed to be an ally ...

Proudboomer · 16/08/2021 14:43

The taliban has never left Afghanistan. They have stayed in rural areas and villages just waiting for the day the west pulled out.
This is quite long but worth watching

BrozTito · 16/08/2021 14:44

Pakistan isnt an ally due to that incident.The fallout behind the scenes was huge

Alondra · 16/08/2021 14:47

[quote jasjas1973]@alondra

I do not support our trade and defense co-op with Saudi but whats the alternative?
Allow Russia or China to influence the Saudi's?

Its bit like Libya Iraq or Syria - we give tacit support to some pretty horrible regimes or we break them up, and have decades of civil war, death and terrorism - as we have seen.

We should seek to influence the Saudi's to slowly change their ways because to allow the place to self destruct would be even worse, war is rarely the best option.[/quote]
What about opening trade with China when the US supports an fundamentalist oppressive regime like Saud Arabia?

But we both know its not about America support for human rights. They don't give a shit. It's about competition and money.

The dictatorial Saudis are giving access to their oil to America and China is becoming their direct competitor in world resources.

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