Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

Any woman (and most men) who welcomes the Taliban is experiencing a triumph of hope over experience.

@mrshoho they wear hijab anyway and aren't expected to wear a burqa.

They are more concerned about foreign invasion again tbh

@shekamboo
Really interesting contribution to the discussion. Noone here would have ever presumed (or dared voice) that that may be the case.
Do your female relatives have any views you'd wish to share on their behalf on the past 20 years in Kabul?

I suppose we also forget that the whole country isn't Kabul and that women in the Districts and Provinces may have differing opinions, views and experiences, again.

@mrshoho yes not escorted.

A lot of them and majority of people do believe the Taliban has changed as they've had a good 20 years to get educated and they are talking the talk at the moment

@LadyAria I just wanted to send for you and yours.

It’s devastating.

And to all of the Afghans, soldiers .

Blue Wanda I'm not seeing many women and children in the crowds leaving, in the scenes from the airport nor on the roads out.

Where are the women and children.
Where are they.

A very good article from the economist. The taliban have never gone away and that it was pretty much expected that the taliban would take over as soon as the us left. They probably just didn’t expect it to take only 7 days.

[quote shekamboo]@mrshoho yes not escorted.

A lot of them and majority of people do believe the Taliban has changed as they've had a good 20 years to get educated and they are talking the talk at the moment [/quote]
They have certainly learnt to talk like politicians

Remains to be seen how this translates to their actions.

Shekambo

Sounds like the old "Franco got the trains running on time"...

Wanna kiss it must be distressing for you and your husband to see what's going on.

If US staying was in their interests (and Biden has not acted in them) then how long should they have stayed?

Decades, indefinitely?

There is no easy way to leave. The Taliban was waiting. So it comes down to there for a lot longer or not.

Proud, so many sayings

One is that the elders look both ways ie they can be local war Lords or taliban depending which way the wind blows.

The people are adept at surviving... In such a situation, with so few protections, who wouldn't do the same?

@Wannakisstheteacher you know what I agree with so much in your posts. I do find it so hard, because the people who will be most affected by the taliban regaining power, i.e. women and children, have never had much control in being able to defend themselves. But I don't honestly know what the answer is.

I agree, our guys really have tried and their efforts should never be belittled. It's a sad situation all round- as you say, with the very best training and equipment, what has happened to the army there?

I really hope it's as @shekamboo says.

Marsha there should have been worse case scenario planning though to stop these scenes.

30000 personal to get out is a hell of a lot in chaos like this.

Strawberry, personally I think they should have trained the women, empower them.

They had to be "culturally sensitive" but imagine being that sensitive in apartheid South Africa???
Buying into this women as chattels culture...

Thank you @shekamboo. I can understand how the prospect of invasion from other nations is more fearful. I hope for the sake of the women in Afghanistan that the Taliban has changed.

@bluewanda

The Taliban are now saying they won’t let Afghan people leave - it’s chilling. I read that the Americans are guarding the airport and that commercial flights are grounded for now. Is that to allow military flights in and out first? When will commercial flights be allowed to start up again? We need to help as many Afghan women and children as possible come to start new lives in the UK and US - it’s the least we can do. I just worry it’s too late

If you look at all the video footage of the airport, the crowds trying to leave seem entirely composed of men. Women and children are not being prioritised, despite the threat being greatest for them.

I hope for the sake of everyone the Taliban has changed it created (from what I read from first hand experiences) a life of fear for all unless you were high up in the Taliban.

@Panickingpavlova

Blue Wanda I'm not seeing many women and children in the crowds leaving, in the scenes from the airport nor on the roads out.

Where are the women and children.
Where are they.

Exactly. There have been men recorded as taunting women with what will happen to them when the Taliban rule.

I personally think that they would have done better to find local war chiefs who were hostile to the Taliban and fund them until Bin Laden was dead

The problem there may have been finding reliable ones. It's all too common for them to play both sides, take the money and carry on exactly as they wish, which could partly explain why the army - some of them Taliban sympathisers - rolled over quite so fast

When insisting that "We promised we wouldn't leave them to the Taliban" it's worth remembering the regime also made a lot of promises in return for the money - too many of them not kept

Do you not think those men are fearful too. Who is going to speak out against the Taliban no one if they want to live. Do you think men worry about their daughters/mother and sisters less than they do here. Their sons as young as 12 will be taken as soldiers (or were before)

In many cultures it will always be the men moving to another country they will be expected to send money home it’s inconceivable to some that women and children could survive alone in another country

It’s not down to hate of women it’s culturally different

Watch the videos on the bbc website of Kabul airport.
Majority is young men trying to fight their way onto air craft.
Where are their wives, sisters, daughters, mothers?

Just like the Afghan army they don’t give a shit about the women of Afghanistan. Women’s lives are cheap and easy replaceable.