“Incel” AIBU to think forums should be banned?

[SteveArnottsWaistcoat]

Following from the horrible tragedy of the mass shooting in Plymouth, I had never heard of Incel before and had to Google what it was.

I was pretty shocked to discover open forums full of what I can only describe as hate speech. Really vile things being said against women by angry men. (I’m not going to link to the one I found but if you put in Incels then a dot and then net you’ll find it. The description made it sound like a support network but the content is very different)

Now I could be being totally naive here, I’m sure there are forums out there with all kinds of hate speech against everything going, but some of the stuff I read on there made me wonder how that kind of thing is allowed in such an open public way!

Is it freedom of speech? AIBU to think it shouldn’t be allowed? Do you think these websites are monitored?

totally
appalling

How do you suggest we 'police' those forums?

@VladmirsPoutine

How do you suggest we 'police' those forums?

I don't think you'll ever manage to police the forums but maybe internet history could form part of the gun licensing process.

I was pretty shocked to discover open forums full of what I can only describe as hate speech. Really vile things being said against women by angry men.

It’s been going on for ages unfortunately and it’s a testament to how little attention is given to misogyny that even after Elliot Rodger and Mark Lepine so few are aware of this movement.

OP I would recommend Laura Bates’ book “Men who hate Women”. It’s depressing but necessary.

I don't think you'll ever manage to police the forums but maybe internet history could form part of the gun licensing process.

This 100%. If it's me making the rules, if you've ever said or written anything about killing or seriously injuring someone, even in jest, you don't get a gun. No exceptions.

I don't think you'll ever manage to police the forums but maybe internet history could form part of the gun licensing process.

Excellent idea.

@Cyw2018 That was my point. These forums will never be banned. It's nigh on impossible.

@takealettermsjones

I don't think you'll ever manage to police the forums but maybe internet history could form part of the gun licensing process.

This 100%. If it's me making the rules, if you've ever said or written anything about killing or seriously injuring someone, even in jest, you don't get a gun. No exceptions.

And how well resourced do you think the police are that they can review everything everything an individual has ever posted online, unless in the case of an actual crime being committed?

How many posters on MN come out with trite lines about burying their husbands under the patio or saying "I'd have punched her lights out OP" over the most ridiculously petty things?

Can you imagine the amount of work this would take?

Police services have been cut to the bone. This suggestion is totally unworkable unfortunately.

You can’t ban the internet lol. How on Earth do you think that could happen when VPNs exist? Chinese people in China upload videos and leave comments on YouTube even though China has a ban on Youtube.

Your can’t police the internet like that; too many countries with different policies. Squash one forum and another one pops up.

As soon as I heard the initial breaking news of that attack I had this gut feeling it was an incel attack, then told myself I was being silly because I'm overexposed to that stuff.

It is truly the worst of the worst. They are malignant moaners, and they've now evolved from talking amongst themselves about stuff they know will never happen really (government mandated girlfriends) to being inspired by each other's filthy awful crimes.

Yes they are in pain. But they are causing themselves worst pain and incredibly toxic to eachother. No one talks more hatefully of incels than actual incels. I wish there was a way to police this, I believed reddit ban the subs but they just regroup.

What the fuck is going on.

It's terrifying.

If you shut down the forums then they go underground. These people will still find a way to communicate with each other.

What needs to happen is that it needs to be taken as seriously as other types of extremism. These are the same type of people that were behind the insurrection in the US, and numerous other attacks.

If the police can turn up to arrest a woman for calling a male person he instead of they
For hanging a suffragette ribbon and making a person feel unsafe
A man for retweeting a ditty about trans
Why can't they arrest those who make threats to women? Because they choose which groups to protect (or over protect when they arrest for non crime)

In theory, but it's a bit like saying 'let's ban illegal drugs' - i.e. a lot of incel stuff will already be underground.

Reddit, one of the biggest Incel platforms says this-

'In accordance with the site's policies on free speech, Reddit's admins say that they do not ban communities solely for featuring controversial content. Reddit's general manager Erik Martin noted that "having to stomach occasional troll [sub]reddits like r/picsofdeadkids or morally questionable [sub]reddits like r/jailbait are part of the price of free speech on a site like this," and that it is not Reddit's place to censor its users.The site's former CEO,Yishan Wong, stated that distasteful subreddits would not be banned because Reddit as a platform should serve the ideals of free speech.Critics of this position have argued that Reddit has not been consistent in following its free speech philosophy.'

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communities

So, something could be done but this platform in particular refuses to. It has censored non violent groups in the past for 'unacceptable' views but not generally the ones with violent and sexual content towards women.

Policing the internet is essentially impossible, a country could decide ID is required to open a social media account etc, but there is nothing stopping someone using a VPN to avoid the need for ID.

And how well resourced do you think the police are that they can review everything
everything an individual has ever posted online, unless in the case of an actual crime being committed?

It took literally minutes from the release of the perpetrators name to the first media reports of incel links. Maybe a few investigative journalist could be employed in the role, they'd get the job done pretty quickly.

Laura Bates' book is eye opening. She was interviewed on Woman's Hour last year - it's here, at about 16.30 minutes in. Totally appalling.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000mcgr

Really thought women were finally getting somewhere, but over the last couple of years things have been going backwards at an alarming pace.

It doesn't need to be the police checking people's internet history. If people want to apply for a gun licence, they can pay for their own checks to be done by a private company if necessary 🤷🏻‍♀️

There are things that could be done, not to ban it as sadly that's nigh on impossible, but to moderate popular and accessible platforms- they do it for other areas of radicalisation, its not impossible. But they won't as misogyny isn't a hate crime, and well...who cares about women, eh.

@Waitwhat23 that's very interesting

Impossible to stop it I imagine.

I do think policing internet history as part of gun licensing is a brilliant idea, but there must be lots of ways for a tech-savvy person to get round that?

@takealettermsjones

It doesn't need to be the police checking people's internet history. If people want to apply for a gun licence, they can pay for their own checks to be done by a private company if necessary 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, that couldn't be exploited or allow for loopholes in any way...

Men like that don't deserve a platform.