The Incel movement is a terrorist ideology.

[flashbac]

It's worrying that it isn't seen as such.

If being radicalised online to hate half the population, resulting in you murdering people isn’t classed as terrorism then I don’t know what is

Well, exactly.

That said, Incels and their violence existed before the Internet and before the word ‘Incel’. They were called ‘men who hate women’ then.

I’ve always thought if any other social group intimidated another social group in the way men intimidate women, we’d call it terrorism.

It is truly shocking that what this man did is considered anything other than terrorism and I agree whole heartedly the incel movement is of grave concern. It is grotesque that such deep seated misogyny is allowed to flourish throughout society and is minimised even in the most horrific of circumstances. Male entitlement and macho supremism really needs to be wheedled out from society; it ia far, far too common, too widely accepted and too rarely challenged.

Some of the videos he posted on YouTube should really have flagged-the way he describes women and talks about how he feels about women should have really made him a person of interest for monitoring. There were sinister undertones to some very derogatory comments that would have pointed to a potential for predatory or violent sexual tendencies.

And I firmly believe social media has a heavy influence on many extremist groups-it is far too easy for previously isolated individuals to normalise their extremist beliefs in the company of others now. That goes for many extremists. Not just this particular one.

Haven’t read the whole thread but I’ve been on here for years telling people to watch what their sons are watching online. Radicalisation doesn’t just mean brown and Islam. There are far right groups calling themselves by all types of different names to confuse people such as alt-right and incel but their aim is the same - to turn young men into terrorists.

Terrorism is the use or threat of action …. designed to … intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing …… [an] ideological cause.

Sounds like the Incels to me. They commit violence; they threaten and fantasise harm to women, which is intimidating; they advance a misogynistic ideology in which women should obey them.

Actually, who else does this remind you of?

Jonathan Hall QC, the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, told the Guardian: “Incel(dom) definitely can be an ideology for the purposes of terrorism. It always depends on the evidence, but if you kill people in a symbolic way because you hate what they represent within your ideology, it’s not a big stretch to conclude that killing them is in pursuance of an ideological cause.”

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Terrorism is the use or threat of action …. designed to … intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing …… [an] ideological cause.

Sounds like the Incels to me. They commit violence; they threaten and fantasise harm to women, which is intimidating; they advance a misogynistic ideology in which women should obey them.

Actually, who else does this remind you of?

🤔

...

off the top of my head I can only think of one solo mass-shooter (in America) who was female. Vs how many males?

Well, TBF this is partly the result of media coverage: there have been a number of women mass shooters, but they (along with ethnic minority male shooters) tend to get less media coverage than ones that fit the angry white young man profile. The vast majority of shooters are still men, though.

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Haven’t read the whole thread but I’ve been on here for years telling people to watch what their sons are watching online. Radicalisation doesn’t just mean brown and Islam. There are far right groups calling themselves by all types of different names to confuse people such as alt-right and incel but their aim is the same - to turn young men into terrorists.

I've read some of your posts on this.

I have an autistic son and also have done prevent training due to my role in education.

I'm very aware he's in the group that are vulnerable to radicalisation and that ds wouldn't recognise this at first.

So far I've had no concerns because he's extremely anti far right and spends half his life about the pure existence of Trump and Boris!

The Stuff They Don't Want You To Know podcast did an episode about incels. I tried posting a link but it was to the IHeartRadio website and it wouldn't post a link in the UK. I think the series is on most podcast apps (I get it on Podcast Addict).

Goodness me it's horrendous. I had a nose around one such website today for the first time. I have fairly low expectations of men at the best of times and had heard of how fucked up incels were but I was sickened by what goes on there. There were lots of photos of some poor girls in Thailand who were being duped and used by one creepy little fucker. It made me sick the way these sad pricks were talking about them. Not only vile misogyny but rampant racism too. Definitely a dangerous, extremist ideology.

Well, TBF this is partly the result of media coverage: there have been a number of women mass shooters

From statista.com - In the U.S since 1982 119 mass shootings have been male and 3 have been female.

Whether you define it as terrorism in the narrow sense or not, these are criminals whose activities should be shut down and those responsible arrested.

I'm not sure this will be a popular view but having flirted with incels and mgtow it definitely can be seen as terrorism but really that doesn't deal with the actual issues of men not just young who are frustrated and disaffected.

It made me sick the way these sad pricks were talking about them. Not only vile misogyny but rampant racism too.

They definitely go hand in hand.

It is people who feel sorry for themselves and just want to blame other people for their own problems which is usually the opposite sex, different races, different religions and/or immigrants.

@Blossomtoes

It’s not a terrorist ideology as it has no political aim. In fact it doesn’t appear to have any aim at all. It’s mindless violence for violence sake.

This. Those saying it meets the definition. What is it’s political aim?

As others have mentioned, read Laura Bates’ book “Men Who Hate Women”.
She was on LBC (Shelagh Fogarty) this afternoon too, if you want to catch that.

I see it as more of a mental illness, as they don't really have a goal like a terror group.

Still very scray.

Its Misogyny. The problem is that society doesnt treat misogyny with the seriousness that it deserves because society is led by men.

I do think living life online might have something to do with this.

From statista.com - In the U.S since 1982 119 mass shootings have been male and 3 have been female

yes, it depends how you define mass shootings. Other sources give higher numbers. Either way, it's a tiny minority. My point was more that only being aware of one doesn't necessarily mean there is only one. It's a bit of a side track, I grant you, but I think it's important to build arguments on solid factual ground.

Umm... I never said there had only been one. So, bit of a straw man there.

May I suggest Laura Bates’s ‘Men Who Hate Women’ and her investigation into the Incel Movement. It is indeed highly organised, political, and has a clear political aim. They come under the definition of terrorism and have been involved in many attacks, in particular across the USA and have killed many people.

Oh sorry I should have rtft

The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

@BillMasen terrorism can include political, religious or ideological views.
Some areas (I think Canada is one) already class Incels as a terrorist group.

It's not treated as terrorism because no one cares about women or girls.

Misogynism is as much of a scourge as racism, yet it is swept under carpet over and over.