To think Eammon Holmes needs to go now

[Hugolugo]

He's always been a chubby misogynist with questionable.comments to make about his wife but now he has compared a woman's afro hair to the fur on an alpaca. Has the world gone completely bloody mad? How come he still has that job? And, no, the 'I have old fashioned northern Irish charm' act doesn't make up for it. I for one am certainly not feeling charmed! I have no idea how Ruth puts up with him tbh.

@NotDavidTennant

The vast majority of Black people in the UK are either people who came over in the Windrush to work here or are descended from people who came over in the Windrush. Slavery will not have been a part of their history at all.

Erm, the Windrush came from Jamaica. How do you think black people got to Jamaica in the first place? (Clue: they were taken there by the British as slaves.)

Being a Black British person who had an ancestor who was shipped to Jamaica in the 17th century is not the same as being a Black American person with grandparents who were slaves in the same country where you currently live.

That is what I mean about the difference in lived experience. You really can't conflate the two.

So even though the word has racist connotations and you know that, you'll still use it.
Ok got it

Haha nice try saying I've suggested the legacy of black people in the UK has been the same as for those in the US.
I said we played a ROLE in the UK and you can post as much as you like on the difference but bottom line is you're twisting words and trying to score points.
Won't work with me

[quote Heiferr]@Snoozer11 In America, she's generally deemed as black. [/quote]
Eammon Holmes isn't in America.

@Roussette I'm not twisting words or trying to score points.
I'm simply stating facts.

This is all a big fuss over nothing.

Yes you are falsely saying I said things I didn't.

Anyway back to Eamonn. We have a power cut here so luckily I can't see him!

EnidSpyton I am white so hesitating to comment , but I do work with words and know that some words that once were seen as acceptable no longer are once their connations and origins become known. Surely you understand that?

And I don't think you can so easily separate the UK and US experience of slavery when many of our historic buildings are constructed on its profits. Ever been to Lancaster? All of the major civic stone buildings there were built on the profits of cotton and gold, gleaned off the back of hideous suffering. Have a look at the English Heritage document "Slavery and the British Country House". Yes, some stately homes are linked to abolition, but many are linked to slavery itself or the profits of slavery.

@Roussette

So even though the word has racist connotations and you know that, you'll still use it. Ok got it

Haha nice try saying I've suggested the legacy of black people in the UK has been the same as for those in the US.
I said we played a ROLE in the UK and you can post as much as you like on the difference but bottom line is you're twisting words and trying to score points.
Won't work with me

Agree. The U.K. played a huge role in the slave trade triangle and middle passage.

Unsure33 Boris's hair needs brushing and cutting. No one compares Boris to a wild animal in a live interview but if they have it would still be a different issue. White privilege...

Exactly, that's the difference - it wouldn't have all the negative connotations behind it, and the history.

@FatCatThinCat

He should have been sacked when he told a rape victim that he hoped she'd learnt her lesson and would get a taxi home in future. Horrible, horrible man.

What??????????

I presume the ignorant, misogynistic idiot hadn't heard of John Worboys?

Can't believe he's on air.

@whythooo

I'm white as can be and even I have amassed the skills to play bingo on this thread, particularly with a certain posters comments.

no way was he trying to intentionally be racist

it was another silly comment, that he doesn’t stop to think about

no malice behind it.

Here we have: he's not racist he's just stupid. Because a grown man, with all the money and resources he has, is apparently incapable of reading a couple of articles online, or a book, or using google.

Typically leads to...

He needs to be educated

Or he could, you know, recognise he's a grown adult and educate himself?

If he's so stupid why is he in a job like that? Surely in a country of 60+ million people, there must be at least someone who is just as talented and yet not quite as stupid.

I'm sure we could even find one with an accent.

You can truly, hand on heart, believe he was intentionally being racist?

The idea that any sort of racism is only racism if it's intentional.

Does that apply to everything else, yes?

Truly Judge, hand on heart, I didn't intend to kill her when I got in my car drunk, drove through a red light and knocked her over.

Please.

I didn’t even see the racist element, does that make me racist too?

My absolute fave! I love these shoving in a plank in your own eye to prove your own ignorance because you somehow believe it will save the racist from removing a splinter from their own.

"But I don't get offended when people insult my long, thick, shiny, balayage blonde hair!"

It’s a scary world we’re living in now, frightened to do or say anything.

Will somebody, somewhere, please think of the children and their right to grow up in a world where they can be offensive to anyone they choose?!

Next thing you know, they'll be coming for baba black sheep and our SKIN TONE plasters.

Snowflakes I tell you. Fucking woke brigade. Ruining things for racists everywhere since the day the first tweeter tweeted.

Great post, and same as in I'm white as can be and even I have amassed the skills to play bingo on this thread

I have met him and he is the most obnoxious celebrity I've ever met. Ignorant bar steward.

Stillcrazyafterall without the 'charming accent' and, more importantly ruth, who tries harder, he wouldn't be in that job I don't think.

As the irish say, he's an eejit.

@Hugolugo I think it’s his style of humour, yes it would be rude to say he looks like a hairy wombat, yes it’s rude saying someone’s hair looks like an alpaca, a poster above said a colleague had said she looked like a poodle because she had left her hair curly. If someone said to a black person with curly hair that they looked like a poodle would that be racist or just rude?. Blurring rudeness to a black person with racism isn’t helpful. I think he has different ‘banter’ towards women and doubt he would have said that to a man but I think we need to be careful to always default to racism to explain inappropriate behaviour.

Summerbreeze4 does E have a sense of humour? I hadn't noticed.

If someone said to a black person with curly hair that they looked like a poodle would that be racist or just rude

Racist and rude.
Even if you were to say it and not think it as racist, doesn't mean it isn't.
It just means you're ignorant/naive/privileged as well.
Seeing as you've never had to think about it too much before, whereas black people have.
Upon which I'd be looking at educating myself, instead of doubling down and saying something like "but it's not, it was just bantz" or whatever (not aimed at anyone in particular, just those with that attitude in general)

I wouldn't even say to my best friend of 50 years that her hair looks like an alpaca. And we continually josh with each other.

He's rude. He's not funny.

[quote Summerbreeze4]@Hugolugo I think it’s his style of humour, yes it would be rude to say he looks like a hairy wombat, yes it’s rude saying someone’s hair looks like an alpaca, a poster above said a colleague had said she looked like a poodle because she had left her hair curly. If someone said to a black person with curly hair that they looked like a poodle would that be racist or just rude?. Blurring rudeness to a black person with racism isn’t helpful. I think he has different ‘banter’ towards women and doubt he would have said that to a man but I think we need to be careful to always default to racism to explain inappropriate behaviour.[/quote]

I'm at loss to understand what it is about E that make so people excuse his frankly abhorrent behaviour.

Come on, it's not funny it's just rude, obnoxious and yes it is plainly racist. If you can't see it, perhaps you need to check your own prejudices.

They ‘already explained’ it, at the time I was asking the question. Do you really think I would ask the question if it had been answered?
I call people uppity, I am unaware of any racial connotations

Oh right, I see.
In that case I apologise for taking your comment in good faith.
I thought you actually were asking for an explanation, but your use of quotation marks and the rest of your comment says it all.
As you were then.

@MeadowBrown

EnidSpyton I am white so hesitating to comment , but I do work with words and know that some words that once were seen as acceptable no longer are once their connations and origins become known. Surely you understand that?

And I don't think you can so easily separate the UK and US experience of slavery when many of our historic buildings are constructed on its profits. Ever been to Lancaster? All of the major civic stone buildings there were built on the profits of cotton and gold, gleaned off the back of hideous suffering. Have a look at the English Heritage document "Slavery and the British Country House". Yes, some stately homes are linked to abolition, but many are linked to slavery itself or the profits of slavery.

Yes of course I do understand that. I simply don't agree that the word uppity is intrinsically seen as having racist connotations in British English. This thread is proof of the fact that many British people had no idea it had racist connotations at all. I have already stated repeatedly that I would - now I know the US connotation - never use the word to describe a person of colour. I have been educated, never fear. So I don't really understand why you're taking issue with me over this. I never use the word uppity in general parlance anyway!

I am fully aware of the legacy of slavery in the UK and its evidence in our built environment, thanks. I have read the English Heritage document with some interest, several months ago. I have taught whole units on the legacy of slavery within English Literature to my students. I work next door to a building with a blue plaque to a slave trader on it! I do get this. However I don't see that slavery being a state in which Black American people lived for generations and that was experienced by most Black American people's immediate ancestors in the same country in which they currently live is comparable to the experience of living alongside buildings being built from the proceeds of slavery.

I think it's important to respect the different historical experiences of Black people and not bandy about generalisations that all Black people live under a traumatic legacy of slavery. It perpetuates a narrative of Black = victim which is surely something we should be fighting against rather than continually reinforcing.

I'm not saying, and nor do I believe that Britain had no role in the slave trade and that racism is not an issue in our country. I am not ignorant. What I am saying is that US and UK lived experience of slavery is very different and as such cultural references to slavery and Blackness do not transfer as easily between our two countries as many posters seem to claim.

I simply don't agree that the word uppity is intrinsically seen as having racist connotations in British English. This thread is proof of the fact that many British people had no idea it had racist connotations at all.

Yes, but just because a lot of people have no idea it has racist connotations, doesn't mean it isn;t.
In fact it shows us up as being woefully uneducated!
There's a difference in yourself, who upon knowng it does have racist connotations, says that now you know of course you wouldn't use it towards someone who is black, and others on the thread who have been like "nope, it's still not, or nope, it hasn't been "explained" , and it's not racist, it's just bantz," or that they'll keep using it as they still don't see a problem,

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I simply don't agree that the word uppity is intrinsically seen as having racist connotations in British English. This thread is proof of the fact that many British people had no idea it had racist connotations at all.

Yes, but just because a lot of people have no idea it has racist connotations, doesn't mean it isn;t.
In fact it shows us up as being woefully uneducated!
There's a difference in yourself, who upon knowng it does have racist connotations, says that now you know of course you wouldn't use it towards someone who is black, and others on the thread who have been like "nope, it's still not, or nope, it hasn't been "explained" , and it's not racist, it's just bantz," or that they'll keep using it as they still don't see a problem,

Absolutely. Once you know there's no excuse.

I'm a bit embarrassed that I didn't know, to be honest. I even lived in the US in my youth for a long period of time and had genuinely never come across it.

I have only watched this programme a few times and while his manner with Ruth is a bit cringey i always thought it was just banter, i know couples like this irl and they get on great. But i saw them on Catchphrase and i thought he was awful, criticising Ruth and scoring points off her the whole time. I didn't see the show in question and am white Irish so i don't feel qualified to comment on it, but i do want to say that Holmes didn't say to a rape victim 'i hope you learned your lesson', he actually said 'i hope you get a taxi next time'. which was disgraceful, and he was rightly castigated for it afterwards. I am not a fan but i think its unfair to misquote him.

The pair of them (Aamon & Ruth) are like a real life Alan Patridge. So glad they were replaced by Rylan & Alison on the show.

He made a comment to a guest once (I think she was an author) "If your book doesn't do well you should be able to get a job as a model with your looks"

Madness

A word's meaning and its connotation are entirely different things

The English language was created in England by the English. It's extremely brazen, out of line, and downright offensive to suggest that we are no longer allowed to use a word because it was appropriated by someone else.

EnidSpyton is making a lot of sense