AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

Working in a Rape Crisis Centre is such a sensitive role you would think all applicants would be subject to the most thorough screening/ safe guarding checks.
Safeguarding as a principle has gone completely out of the window now because of the new mantra of inclusivity and acceptance without exception.
This goes a lot further and wider than RCCs, shocking and disgusting as this one case is.

@endofthelinefinally

Working in a Rape Crisis Centre is such a sensitive role you would think all applicants would be subject to the most thorough screening/ safe guarding checks. Safeguarding as a principle has gone completely out of the window now because of the new mantra of inclusivity and acceptance without exception. This goes a lot further and wider than RCCs, shocking and disgusting as this one case is.

You might think that a centre like this would hire a woman when the job spec specified one...

@beastlyslumber thank you, I went and reread a few bits about the situation and completely agree. The quote did gaslight.

DrSbaitSo

Exactly.

This thread isn't in active conversations.

[quote NCBlossom]**@LoverOfLight* I don’t see this anywhere so don’t agree There is one group of people saying that there is absolutely no difference between a trans woman and a man and there is no room to entertain this idea at all.* - where is this group? A trans woman is respected and supported I would argue more by women than by men on the whole - including feminists (perhaps especially so - as feminists are the ones who have argued for equality for all for years and greater tolerance for fluid roles).[/quote]
Agreed. Up until the massive overreach by TRAs I would have said that women in general were more supportive/ inclusive of gender non conforming people than men are.

LoverofLight - you keep saying it is a different discussion for a different day, but can you not see that it's all part of the same issue. Or maybe you just don't want to acknowledge the incongruence.

Men are whatever men say they are and we have to just go along with that or be branded intolerant.

Also, why is a TW not expanding what it is to be male? they have no idea what it is to be female, only from an observers perspective.

So if they don't feel comfortable being male then fine, but I don't accept that they are women and should be automatically treated as such. Because stuff like this is what happens.

All this talk of 'real trans' and not, how are we supposed to know the difference? The question should not be about whether someone is genuinely trans or not, it's about the fact that single sex spaces must be preserved with no exceptions. Or women and girls lose out.

Trans people deserve care and respect, of course they do. But reality is important, and acknowledging reality shouldn't be this hard. There are plenty of lovely men in my life whom I adore, who I know are not abusers and not rapists. That does not mean I want them anywhere near my changing rooms, refuges etc.

It can't be about 'let's just allow the good ones in', because then we have to police who the good ones are, and it shouldn't be up to us to do that.

This thread isn't in active conversations

I noticed that earlier - then I randomly saw it there - but I still wonder...

@endofthelinefinally

Women and girls who have been sexually assaulted and raped are traumatised, shocked, damaged, fearful of men. I cannot even begin to imagine how they must feel when confronted with a male person in a rape crisis centre, let alone one who tells them to re-frame their trauma.

It is just cruel, deeply insensitive and abusive. IMO.

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say that when I was heading into my local Rape Crisis Centre for my first session a man walked past, just walking down the street, minding his own business. I was in such a state at that time that I found even that very disturbing. The thought of a man being in the building is just unbearable, even now that I am in a much better place.

Rape Crisis Centres are supposed to be safe places for women and girls to get much needed, non judgemental, help, not for them to be forced not be transfuckingphobic. Why can't they leave us in peace?

@Handsoffstrikesagain

Women that support the eradication of their fellow woman’s rights are particularly terrifying.

I find this one of the most mystifying parts of all. How can you be so disinterested or actively work against your own interests?

@NCBlossom you say you don't see it anywhere but that quote was in direct response to someone essentially saying just that - that they didn't understand why anyone could be angry at the MW situation but still agree with stuff like TWAW.

I was just pointing out that I don't agree you can't be both because I am both.

Also - I don't "keep saying" it's another conversation. It is another conversation to the actions of this individual who is the important topic of the thread.

I don't believe trans women should automatically be given access to single sex spaces.

I don't believe trans women should be able to apply for jobs reserved for women.

I don't believe women (and men) should not be able to choose a medical practitioner or other professional based on sex and not gender.

That doesn't mean I think it is right or fair to ignore the fact that there are transwomen and men out their living their life. Most posters on here acknowledge that just fine, but the particular reply my comment was about did not do this.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices

Translation: you can come to these spaces, but we will exploit your need for our services to confront you over any differences in opinions and browbeat you out of them.

It reminds me of aid organisations that only gave starving people food after they'd sat through a Christian sermon .

This was my interpretation too. I say 'interpretation', but the wording here is not particularly subtle or ambiguous, despite PP's attempts to convince people otherwise.

LoverofLight
Also - I don't "keep saying" it's another conversation. It is another conversation to the actions of this individual who is the important topic of the thread.

The actions of this individual have only been made possible by the premise that they are a woman because they say so. Otherwise none of this would have happened. This is not accidental.

The underlying falsehood is supporting this and other individual actions. They cannot be separated from each other. They are a natural consequence of supporting that lie.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices

Translation: you can come to these spaces, but we will exploit your need for our services to confront you over any differences in opinions and browbeat you out of them.

It reminds me of aid organisations that only gave starving people food after they'd sat through a Christian sermon .

This was my interpretation too. I say 'interpretation', but the wording here is not particularly subtle or ambiguous, despite PP's attempts to convince people otherwise.

Apologies for double-posting, happened when I lost connection as I hit 'Post Message'.

Interesting that thread this isn't in 'Active Conversations' , too.

@Mulletsaremisunderstood

The reason the topic is so difficult and nuanced is that there must be an element of "supporting the lie" if we are truly to stand by our words that we support trans women in living their lives as trans women. Because news flash, trans women are not biological women. They are trans women. But the word women is still there.

The actual issue is the abuse of this compassion by others, such as MW, which has allowed the systemic abuse of women. It is not the issue of trans-ness that is the problem, it is the inability or discomfort in making those distinctions where they are necessary, and maintaining those boundaries where they are necessary. This is causing intense transphobia amongst the public as well as putting actual women in the way of very real physical and emotional harm.

I absolutely, point blank, refuse to conflate the nature of being trans with the abuse of women's rights as a black and white issue. Because that hurts innocent trans women.

Because news flash, trans women are not biological women. They are trans women. But the word women is still there.

One of the reasons many of us prefer 'transwomen'. Transwomen aren't a type of woman, and never can be however much they wish it. We can of course support them in many ways but I can't see that being dishonest really helps them, and sure as heck doesn't help women.

I assume hopefully that no matter how upset and angry women are on this issue they won’t act in the way that some transwomen and activists acted towards the Vancouver Rape Crises Center who insisted on remaining a female only space

Hi all, still reading the responses, which are mostly excellent. Apart from those who have missed the point, wilfully or otherwise. To clarify - as a survivor, I cannot discuss my experience with a man, no matter how he identifies. I cannot have a smear test, see a male health care practitioner, use mixed sex toilets, come home late at night on my own in the dark. For those who think this is a theoretical debate ( when we are allowed to have one) for women like me we CAN'T. it is not that we WON'T. The trauma inflicted when I was young (12 for anyone who needs to know) has been compounded by years of low (and sometimes high) level sexism and the dismissal of sexual assault and rape (see the appalling conviction figures). To now have a this person pile on top calling us bigots because of a our involuntary trauma responses is beyond what I can stand to be honest.

@LoverOfLight I agree with you in that it’s fine and healthy to have a debate - and if you thought a poster was saying that fair enough. However I still don’t see a group of women who are against men being trans - anywhere. One poster isn’t a wave or a movement.
For me this is terribly important - as I have read some of the criticism of some specific parts of the newer trans movement and in no way have I seen a general attack that men cannot be a trans woman. However I have often seen that specific issues raised (such as wanting women only spaces and women specific language kept) and conflated to be ‘these people are saying men can’t be trans women’. This is obviously and factually not the case.
I also didn’t say that you keep going on about it - maybe that is another poster?

But not an attack on what you’ve said - I just see this notion that there is a band of angry feminist who cannot stand men wanting to be women - it is promoted as a real thing and it really isn’t!

It deflects from the real and important debate.

ikea I fear we are headed the same way as Canada and that wee Nicola and her brand of feminism would think this type of misogynistic bullying is ok

I can see that the Times has a couple of articles about this - but I don’t want to pay £25 just to read these two articles - is there anyone with a subscription who could perhaps c&p them here so everyone can read them? I would be really interested to see how it’s being reported.

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices

This alone is an appalling statement - "Ooh look bad people can be victims of rape as can good people" a hierarchy of victims, from someone running a service for victims. Utterly disgusting. And what makes these bad victims bad? That would be not wanting a male anywhere near them however said male sees himself at a time for the victim of unimaginable, horrendous trauma and the CEO thinks this is a time to challenge the victim on prejudices the CEO has decided they have? Repugnant.

Since when did we separate victims of sexual violence into worthy and unworthy victims? This is a hairs breadth from stating some victims deserve to be victims. From the CEO of Rape Crisis - ffs.

@LoverOfLight

The actual issue is the abuse of this compassion by others, such as MW, which has allowed the systemic abuse of women. It is not the issue of trans-ness that is the problem, it is the inability or discomfort in making those distinctions where they are necessary, and maintaining those boundaries where they are necessary. This is causing intense transphobia amongst the public as well as putting actual women in the way of very real physical and emotional harm.

Spot on, and I've been posting on fwr for years and this was always my starting position - I suspect it's a fairly common one.

In other words, sex is real, sometimes it's very important (and sometimes it's irrelevant).

You might(?) be surprised that that view is held up as the epitome of transphobia (see Maya Forstater's case, etc etc)