AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

Women who do not wish to be counselled by those born males are not 'bigots'.

It is very simple. Women who have been raped and are getting help may well not want people with a p enis or people who are not XX etc around them. If that makes them a "bigot" that's fine - they should not even be told they are a bigot but instead any such "men" removed from treating them.

A proper trained clinical psychologist would not be making any kind of value judgment about victims to them

Similarly if I turn up at A&E dying of covid because I have chosen not to be vaccinated or I am 30 stone the nurses and doctors will just treat the patient rather than telling them it's because they ate too many cream buns etc.

it would be a very different thing if a cake shop had a sign - no gays or no trans people on the door as that would breach the law.

Sorry, you quoted MW literally saying this. How can you say no one is suggesting this when it is literally what was said? Are you a troll or did you genuinely miss the entire point of the discussion that bit?

Was this the poster who suggested the other women on this thread hadn't accurately understood what had been said in the whole context of MW's weaselly, gaslighting diatribe?

Rape crisis is a service which was founded by women for women. Men - however they identify - do not belong in the service in any capacity.

Reading the whole quote I do feel a bit confused now. Is it just because it is wishy washy double speak?

@LoverOfLight

Reading the whole quote I do feel a bit confused now. Is it just because it is wishy washy double speak?

It's word salad. People speak this way when they are gaslighting. It puts the listener in the position of feeling that something is wrong while allowing (for what the abuser sees as) plausible deniability. In a relationship, this looks something like, "if you lost a bit of weight, I'd love you more." You get upset about this, and the abuser comes back with, "I never said you needed to lose weight or that I didn't love you. Why are you always taking things the wrong way and trying to make me look bad? You're making things up in order to make me look the bad one here, but in reality, you're doing this to yourself." The victim then struggles to explain why the original insult was indeed expressing exactly the message she heard, and she is made to doubt herself and blame herself for her own feelings of hurt and upset.

What MW said is utterly horrendous and women reading or hearing those words instinctively recoil in horror. But MW and MW's defenders are going to say the problem is in women's interpretation, and that we are the ones who are in the wrong. That recoiling in horror is because we are bigots and we need to "reframe our trauma" so that we understand.

Rape crisis is a service which was founded by women for women. Men - however they identify - do not belong in the service in any capacity.

^This. It’s a safe place for women and girls who have been victims of male violence, where they can access support from other women.

MW talks in the terms of power and control. As in the service can dictate terms and compell by 'education' to comply.

For a service which is dealing with abused women.

Thats enough of a concern in its own right.

I think were this statement about a different minority group, you'd be appalled that the CEO would need to clarify that rape crisis was inclusive, which really begs the question, why is acceptable to do this to trans women?

Wow.

You clearly haven't read the thread. I've explained fully why the last poter who shared your views was damaging to victims and the internal shame caused.

Women of all races, ages, and all other protected characteristics, aside from sex, have only one main predator. That predator is male sexed people, however they choose to identify.

The fact that you can even pretend to deny this is incomprehensible to me as a survivor of repeated violent sexual abuse at the hands of males.

I don't wish transpeople anything but safety and acceptance to live as they chose, with one single caveat. Women by sex, females ot whatever we now are when referring specifically to sex, need safe spaces without males, even transwomen. It isnt a bigoted or selfish need. It's a life saving one.

I know that you won't listen, but others who read this thread might. Seeking trauma support should never, ever involve politics. It is about healing and centering the individual.

As a survivor, I heard exactly what was said and exactly how it was said. A soft tone doesn't make it nice. Please stop gaslighting victims. I am not mad, I read it and listened to it before coming on this thread and reading replies. It is, exactly what it is. Nasty threats covered in fake niceness. No.

It is trying to say that male sexual violence isn't a real thing.

Male sexual violence is about dicks. If you have a dick you cannot say that male sexual violence is gendered rather than sexed because unfortunately the data doesn't back up that belief.

In any way.

Either sex is a protected characteristic or ut is not.

You cannot claim it is and then say males are female if they say they are.

@LoverOfLight I don’t see this anywhere so don’t agree There is one group of people saying that there is absolutely no difference between a trans woman and a man and there is no room to entertain this idea at all. - where is this group? A trans woman is respected and supported I would argue more by women than by men on the whole - including feminists (perhaps especially so - as feminists are the ones who have argued for equality for all for years and greater tolerance for fluid roles).

There was an interesting thread recently on Twitter posted on behalf of a gay man and his mental health issues that arose from an HIV positive diagnosis. He was defending the need for those who have experienced trauma to demand their own safe space, whatever that may be, to work through it.

He was saying that in the midst of his depression when he was very low - barely able to get out of bed, unable to go to work, depressed - that the only people he could bear to work through it with and be counselled by were other gay men.

No one called him a bigot or asked him to “reframe his trauma” to include heterosexual women.

MW hasn’t painted themselves in a good light here as well, almost as if their agenda for the job had nothing to do with supporting abused women at all.

Anyone who feels complacent about what's happening here could try g0ogling Vancouver Rape Crisis Centre.... Defunding, death threats, dead rats for wanting to keep the centre female only (and thereby being "bigots")
Everyone should be as outraged as OP.

@beastlyslumber
I think any organisation claiming to support women after the trauma of rape or abuse - who are asking (well more than that demanding) them to reframe their trauma is a HUGE red flag.

Women (or men) should NOT be asked to reframe their trauma.

I’m glad whoever posted the full quote did so - as I didn’t realise it was so bad until I read the whole thing. It’s very misogynistic and very controlling.

@nolongersurprised yes there are so many examples of this: (people wanting to be with certain groups of people to help them recover from trauma - for support)

• cancer groups for survivors of cancer
• Alcoholics Anonymous
• HIV positive groups (many for just gay men)
• trans groups
• disability groups…

Etc.

[quote NCBlossom]@beastlyslumber
I think any organisation claiming to support women after the trauma of rape or abuse - who are asking (well more than that demanding) them to reframe their trauma is a HUGE red flag.

Women (or men) should NOT be asked to reframe their trauma.

I’m glad whoever posted the full quote did so - as I didn’t realise it was so bad until I read the whole thing. It’s very misogynistic and very controlling.[/quote]
I hope it didn't seem that I was in any way disagreeing with this? If you read my comments it should be clear that this is precisely how I see it.

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices

Translation: you can come to these spaces, but we will exploit your need for our services to confront you over any differences in opinions and browbeat you out of them.

It reminds me of aid organisations that only gave starving people food after they'd sat through a Christian sermon .

The inclusion of trans women hasn't prevented other women from receiving the care they need

Evidence suggests some women are self excluding for this reason. As women here have told you that they would.

@beastlyslumber no not at all, apologies! I was actually agreeing with you more - but am so busy today am writing too quickly and not checking myself!

If I brought racist, homophobic or transphobic views in a space I would expect to be challenged

There are none of these views inherent in a female rape victim not wanting to talk about her rape with males.

Don't worry @NCBlossom just checking I hadn't messed up my comment! I also think I'm acting a bit defensive at the moment.

So let’s call this RCC a ‘re-education’ centre and be done with it. And whatever views the CEO and board think is bigoted will be included in the re-education plan.

If you cannot see that the prevailing views that this CEO has expressed in the past is harmful to women that is on you. To the very point that they even changed political parties because they wanted to keep the wording of ‘gender’ vs ‘sex’ for any rape victim to be able to choose their examiner and treatment provider.

So. You are advocating for a person with views that many other female rape victims found abhorrent to have the authority and moral authority at that to ‘re-educate’ those victims until they comply?

Is that really what you wish to advocate for?

This. This complete lack of care and consideration for the needs of women, and failure of empathy, goes beyond any naive, misguided sense of righteousness and being "kind" to these male people and is actively hostile to female rights, and anti feminist in the worst sense.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes yes I agree - it really isn’t the same as someone say wanting help from a doctor but refusing to see an Asian doctor - for example. Which is what the heavy implication is - that it is bigotry.

It is NOT bigotry to want to use a support service that does not want you to reframe your trauma into something positive. It is NOT bigotry to want to speak to another woman after you’ve been raped or have a woman accompany you to be checked over medically. Female rape victims are not asking to never speak or to hate men - they are asking for a short term confidential service to feel safe enough to process their trauma.

It’s like telling someone who has been beaten up for being black that they will be confronted as a bigot if they say they have any feelings about the racism that resulted in the attack on them. There has to be room and respect for that. It doesn’t mean that the person who experience racism, is being racist themselves just for acknowledging it.

The fact that the CEO is asking them to reframe their trauma is however a bigger issue I feel!

I just don’t understand why MW is trying to make help for traumatised women political?

I would expect that all politics is kept out of trauma counselling. I don’t think left, right, religion, class etc, etc, should come into it. I am horrified that is seems to be essential to MW.

I think trauma counselling (and all counselling) should follow established psychological principles and centre the victim. With a counsellor that is acceptable for that particular victim.

Is MW a memetic if the British Psychological Society? What education does MW have in counselling and which principles does MW follow? I am trying to understand this better