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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

999 replies

herewegogc · 10/08/2021 21:27

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
NotBadConsidering · 13/08/2021 11:26

The more I read their own words, the more it reinforces to me that this person is only really about themselves.

Exactly. Read the statement on their website where MW has “clarified” the comments made. It’s all about prioritising their role in creating a fairer society. No! Your role is to look after traumatised women! That’s your one job! You’re not there to deal with all the -isms. It shows that to MW, the women who have been raped aren’t the single priority as they should be, but MW sees it as a political activism appointment to further their agenda. As pp have said, you don’t hear from other Rape Crisis centre CEOs talking about tackling non- rape issues.

beastlyslumber · 13/08/2021 11:27

Persuasion newsletter today - "When Therapists Become Activists" www.persuasion.community/p/when-therapists-become-activists?r=36x6j&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy

Relevant to the wider discussion.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/08/2021 11:27

Oh, I think MW understands it very well indeed.

I think you're right. MW doesn't empathise with it, more precisely.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/08/2021 11:29

I see that MW's carefully curated tweets are back up.

Helleofabore · 13/08/2021 11:43

This is the transcript from the Buzz feed Provoke podcast that is dissected in that link from Eresh. It is MW's own words discussing their first call centre job.

In it they are not discussing how they were able to make women's (or men's) lives better, they were discussing power and how they attained it through the persona of "Louise".

At 5.12 in the You're Kiddin', Right video, MW says this.

"It was the first time I experienced power. It was a call centre job where we were the customer service for the benefit card that was being rolled out in the United States, in certain States. Where people who were receiving food stamps and cash benefits from the local state governments were now receiving it on an electronic card."

So they were transitioning from whatever system was there before to the electronic card. And I was responsible for whatever the person had phoned me about, you know I could do whatever they asked me to and I experienced this complete powerfulness. This idea that I was in charge and it wasn't me, it was Louise who was in charge. And this is how I discovered Louise."

"When I was shocked with fear about anything, I would call on Louise. And Louise could do whatever. So, in my most difficult moments I spoke as Louise. And Louise (the western woman's name they chose to convince Americans' they were also American') could do whatever. She could do anything. In my most difficult moments, I spoke as Louise. And Louise had a very Southern drawl. I have lost it. But I was very good at it."

"It was so racist as well, because most of my colleagues sounded Indian, no matter how hard they tried and whenever I came on the phone you could hear, um, (indistinguishable) who would say 'finally a white American'."

www.buzzsprout.com%2F1219151%2F4569950-provokecast-episode-1-mridul-wadhwa

Quite a bit of 'context' really.

DrSbaitso · 13/08/2021 11:47

@Helleofabore

This is the transcript from the Buzz feed Provoke podcast that is dissected in that link from Eresh. It is MW's own words discussing their first call centre job.

In it they are not discussing how they were able to make women's (or men's) lives better, they were discussing power and how they attained it through the persona of "Louise".

At 5.12 in the You're Kiddin', Right video, MW says this.

"It was the first time I experienced power. It was a call centre job where we were the customer service for the benefit card that was being rolled out in the United States, in certain States. Where people who were receiving food stamps and cash benefits from the local state governments were now receiving it on an electronic card."

So they were transitioning from whatever system was there before to the electronic card. And I was responsible for whatever the person had phoned me about, you know I could do whatever they asked me to and I experienced this complete powerfulness. This idea that I was in charge and it wasn't me, it was Louise who was in charge. And this is how I discovered Louise."

"When I was shocked with fear about anything, I would call on Louise. And Louise could do whatever. So, in my most difficult moments I spoke as Louise. And Louise (the western woman's name they chose to convince Americans' they were also American') could do whatever. She could do anything. In my most difficult moments, I spoke as Louise. And Louise had a very Southern drawl. I have lost it. But I was very good at it."

"It was so racist as well, because most of my colleagues sounded Indian, no matter how hard they tried and whenever I came on the phone you could hear, um, (indistinguishable) who would say 'finally a white American'."

www.buzzsprout.com%2F1219151%2F4569950-provokecast-episode-1-mridul-wadhwa

Quite a bit of 'context' really.

Holy shit.
FlibbertyGiblets · 13/08/2021 11:53

Oh that's a whole lot of context. Thank you.

AlfonsoTheMango · 13/08/2021 11:54

Yep. Power, as I said above.

Skinnytailedsquirrel · 13/08/2021 11:55

Bloody hell. He's on a power-trip, At the cost of women.

Helleofabore · 13/08/2021 11:55

Holy shit.

Yes. I heard this earlier this year and it brought a great deal together in understanding this. Particularly when you then link it to what they said to FF about 'guilt'.

And that is not even including them discussing orgasm in rape.

The more they talk, the more it simply reinforces that this is not the individual that should be involved in setting any kind of policy for ensuring women are best served by RCCs.

RoseisMadder · 13/08/2021 11:57

I’ve been gradually reading this thread over the last few days, I’m so glad it’s still here in AIBU and everyone from (what was) FWR posting so articulately. You always amaze me, I’m always far to angry to string competent words together!
But I am wondering why the TRA (MRA) side are so quiet over this? Has anyone seen MW being excused? Says a lot if not
OP thank you for posting this and fighting for it to stay here in AIBU Flowers

Helleofabore · 13/08/2021 11:58

Although, I am sure someone will come on and state how they might be discussing 'power' in the context of 'having the power to help those who most need it'....

However, there doesn't seem to be any focus on those they helped, just the feeling of power and of being 'in charge' and of the deception of the persona to attain that.

This is something that I have noticed in the interviews, written and voice, that I have read and listened to.

DrSbaitso · 13/08/2021 12:02

Although, I am sure someone will come on and state how they might be discussing 'power' in the context of 'having the power to help those who most need it'....

It is abundantly clear that that is not what MW meant. There are explicit statements about it being purely self serving. "This idea that I was in charge and it wasn't me, it was Louise who was in charge. And this is how I discovered Louise...When I was shocked with fear about anything, I would call on Louise. And Louise could do whatever. So, in my most difficult moments I spoke as Louise."

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/08/2021 12:03

But I am wondering why the TRA (MRA) side are so quiet over this? Has anyone seen MW being excused? Says a lot if not

A few have, by trying to deflect on the women calling this out and making shit up about how For Women Scotland whipped all this up by misrepresenting MW's wise, compassionate and feminist words. Which we all heard ourselves perfectly well. It's just the fake news tactic, putting lies out there that they know many people won't bother to fact check.

Orgasmagorical · 13/08/2021 12:04

Thank you, Eresh.

"And Louise had a very Southern drawl. I have lost it. But I was very good at it."

Lie. MW would still be able to speak like that if they had ever been able to. Humble they're not.

I've come to the conclusion there is no point in listening to anything MW says because I don't consider any of it to be true or it's just being said to further their cause, whatever that is.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/08/2021 12:06

It is abundantly clear that that is not what MW meant.

It is, but that won't stop these people from attempting to spin it. Some of them are already doing this about "reframe your trauma" and implying that it's a natural part of the therapeutic process to have a struggle session about your own moral failings.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/08/2021 12:08

When as most of us know and has been discussed, women blame themselves for sexual assault and rape. I think most of this is coming from privileged women and men.

Helleofabore · 13/08/2021 12:09

I just read back. I am so sorry Orgasmagorical that you were so let down and not even supported for your grief either. Flowers

Datun · 13/08/2021 12:10

@Helleofabore

I think that this was an interesting interview from back in 2019.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3597742-Forth-Valley-Rape-Crisis-Centre?pg=2&order=

Transcript:

Fox Fisher: I'm here in Stirling to meet Mridal Wadwha, who is a trans woman who also runs a rape crisis centre. Let's go say hello.

Mridul Wadwha: I am Mridul Wadwha. I am trans and a Piscean. A mother. A wife. Half zoroastrian, half Hindu. I'm an immigrant. I run a rape crisis centre. I'm a feminist. I'm a boss. And I speak my mind even when I shouldn't.

FF: Mridul, tell me a bit about where we are and how you came about to work here.

MW: This is the Forth Valley Rape Crisis Centre and I am the Manager. So the centre works with anyone over the age of thirteen who has experienced sexual violence. And anyone who is affected by it. The centre is part of the rape crisis movement. We are a woman only space in the sense that only women work in the centre. Although we work with anyone who's been affected respective of gender identity. I think one of the key things that I'm proud of that has happened in this movement is the increased awareness about forced marriage in Scotland. And how we worked pretty hard to make sure that the law was implemented effectively. Most of our services, violence against women services, largely cater to white, cis women. But there are others that do naturally come to our spaces. You can't expect people to know that you are inclusive if you're not explicit of your inclusion. So, I think our journey around inclusion as a violence against women movement is ... we are getting there, but I think there are some key things that we have to do. And consistently, because equality is too fragile. I spend most of my life thinking about the status of minority ethnic women and migrant women in particular. Any minority who experiences oppression, you expect to be treated badly wherever you go. So you steel yourself up for that. So when you say: "We are inclusive" .. well. you have to show what you are doing not to treat people badly. Can you connect with people's humanity? For me it is an investment in attitude. We need to expose ourselves to difference so that difference is normal. We just dare not to think of ourselves as different.

FF: Is there a personal reason for getting into this line of work?

MW: Staying on has been personal because it is pretty clear to me that I was the only transwoman in the women's aid movement. And I wasn't even sure that if I had been hired, if they had known that I was trans. When I came out individually to various colleagues, there was this disbelief: "Oh, you can't be trans". You know, what does a trans person look like? What does a cis woman look like? How do we know? Over a period of time it became more and more important within my work in this movement to be a transwoman. My activism wasn't around trans activism because really what mattered to me more was my status as an immigrant woman and the women I worked with who came from immigrant backgrounds. It means I've had the opportunity to deliver training across this country and so invariably I would come out in all of my training, not just for people to change their perception of what an immigrant woman looks like or who she is, but also what a transperson looks like. So I think staying in it has become a personal thing.

FF: So tell me what it was like growing up for you and who was the first transperson you met?

MW: So I grew up in India. To me now I would say it was like living in a war zone. And it really came home to me, I really understood when people started speaking about the civil war in Syria and the use of snipers. That's the analogy I use. A sniper would hit me every day, multiple times. From name calling to sexual violence, all of that happened, all the time. When I became an adult, when I began to think a lot more practically and seriously about my transition it was empowering to have grown up in a country where there is a recognition of the third gender or the non-binary in a sense. A transperson I identified with? I don't think I ever met one. I didn't have any resources, I didn't know where to go. And then I remember that I chanced upon this article. A journalist had written an article about how they had set up a helpline for transpeople. So I went to meet this journalist and they put
me in touch with the local hospital's psychiatric unit. It was a complete nightmare, where this guy essentially told me "I don't believe you're trans because you would have insisted on going to a girls' school. Why did you go to a boys' school?" And all that sort of shit. It was like 'I am trans I'm not stupid'. But eventually I found some doctors elsewhere in a different city, but it was so expensive and trying to find a job and keep a job was a challenge. So when I was 17-18 and I made a decision after a failed suicide attempt. I wanted to thrive. I just didn't want to ... manage. So I think coming to that decision was very transformative. I just said to people: "This is who I am, take it or leave it." I got two gifts. One was that I grew up in a household where my parents, not in any every day way ever told me not to be who I was, this effeminate child. But I also grew up to a spiritual outlook that doesn't have a concept of guilt in the same way. I think that has been the biggest gift. I don't know what it feels like to be guilty or ashamed of who you are. I have been lucky somehow to find myself in places where I was able to influence. And I think it is therefore important if you have been given this opportunity by fate to use that effectively. It's a responsibility to be your honest and true self at all times. I have the gift of being the eternal minority. From growing up in a mixed faith background to being a transwoman; to being a person of colour here, and a migrant. What is important for me therefore in doing this work is to try and do something to make sure that others who come after me can come on their own merit. But I think what is most important right now is for more diverse voices to be heard. Whether it is the survivors of sexual violence, or my colleagues who do a lot better work than I do. I need to make sure that my colleagues who I manage here, that their ideas really come to fruition. That is the most important reason why I do this work. What I am really interested in is to make sure everyone that goes through here feels that they have a opportunity to express what is really going on for them. That's why it is important, because this movement, particularly the feminist women's movement that is built on the history of so many women who have transformed. One of the dangers of being in this movement sometimes is that we don't know when to let more people sit around the table. And I think I do know the importance of it. Because I just don't want to be the token trans BAME woman in Scotland for many things in many spaces. Hopefully that will not be forever, and hopefully people won't call me to speak at events anymore. Because I think that is important too. We have to become redundant. That's why it's important.

[A film by Fox Fisher and Owl]

One of the things that also strikes me is

My activism wasn't around trans activism because really what mattered to me more was my status as an immigrant woman and the women I worked with who came from immigrant backgrounds.

To me there is a lack of acknowledging that for some immigrant women, it would be very important to know that the person that they were in contact with was actually a male.

The more I read their own words, the more it reinforces to me that this person is only really about themselves. There seems to be a detachment from the women they are supposed to be there for. There is always the performance of feminism and a political agenda.

Jeez. That's a very difficult read. Every single thing is me, me, me. The entire narrative is about activism, inclusion, being trans, acceptance, etc. The constant gaslighting of talking about themselves as a woman, and therefore aligning with 'other women'.

Where is the talk of male violence??

And Fox Fisher, apparently not noticing any of it.

I mean women will often say that male entitlement leads men, even really quite decent men, to simply be oblivious to what it's like to live as a woman. But this person is working, actually working with victims of male violence. They're at the coalface of what it's like to live as a woman. And they're still oblivious and making it all about themself.

mnmumak · 13/08/2021 12:11

@Helleofabore

I hope that answers your question?

It does. Thank you. I find it helpful to be able to better understand the therapist's perspective. Obviously, we have some therapists who are regular posters on FWR who have posted their view (which are not conflicting with your at all), and I was interested in where you, personally, were sitting in regards to where it seems that Mridal is positioned.

I think the key is that questioning whether or not wanting a specific gender/sex therapist is transphobic also misses the point a little, even if someone IS transphobic that doesn’t deny them the right to access therapy or mean that the goal of that therapy should be changing their views. Does someone who holds racist beliefs not deserve help to overcome a trauma? I’d argue they do. We shouldn’t be the arbiter of who gets to access support or not. It shouldn’t be withheld just because you don’t agree with a client’s beliefs (notwithstanding individual therapist/client relationships where it might not feel possible to work with that particular person and they are referred to someone else).

I’d love to see this person actually do psychological therapy in a challenging environment, such as a prison. They wouldn’t last a minute. I used to work in prisons in a prior role and we would frequently be expected to provide support in a respectful and patient centred way to offenders who had been convicted of murder, rape, child abuse, torture, acts of terrorism. Many of whom held beliefs that many would find intolerable. Didn’t change their right to access care for the specific issue we were trying to help with, nor would it be acceptable to withhold help until they’d denounced certain beliefs they held. That’s a slippery slope and akin to withholding medical treatment from someone who is in hospital due to an extreme sport, or smoking, or obesity, or self harm.

mnmumak · 13/08/2021 12:13

@Orgasmagorical

Egomaniacs too. Sadly as a therapist I’ve had my share of therapy with really crap therapists who are in the job because they enjoy being in a position of perceived power over their clients, they get a thrill from the idea that others are looking to them for their wisdom. It suits a certain kind of person who is ego driven and doesn’t have a lot of humility or ability to recognise their limitations.

This very neatly describes the first therapist I went to when my marriage ended. He did help with some stuff but looking back I can now see how much of what he did and said was wrong. He helped me see that my son was conceived as the result of rape but when I tried to explore that further he said "Does it really matter?". My son died because I wasn't given the opportunity to prepare for pregnancy.

My local RCC have been fantastic but I did think long and hard about going to them because of what's going on with MW.

I’m so sorry you experienced that. Therapists can and do do so much harm. I’m sorry for the loss of your son, that’s a level of pain and grief I can’t even begin to imagine experiencing.
Orgasmagorical · 13/08/2021 12:23

Thank you to those sending sympathy, it's appreciated but I don't mean to derail the thread x

I have a recollection from another thread about MW that a poster said they had had therapy from MW and that MW had laughed when she was talking about the rape. Also that MW had been scrolling on their phone in the session. MW has no interest whatsoever in helping anyone but MW.

From name calling to sexual violence, all of that happened, all the time.

Call me cynical but MW is not saying that happened to MW, MW is saying it happened ... perhaps that oh so gently spoken person isn't quite such a gentle person.

NotBadConsidering · 13/08/2021 12:28

Does someone who holds racist beliefs not deserve help to overcome a trauma? I’d argue they do. We shouldn’t be the arbiter of who gets to access support or not.

Absolutely. Even if the world’s most racist, islamophobic, anti-Semitic, homophobic, transphobic woman to ever walk the earth walks into a rape crisis centre and says they’ve been raped, the single focus should be to counsel her about her rape, not anything else. A rape crisis centre is not the place to fix the unacceptable social views of the women who present there, no matter how “kind” MW might suggest they be in doing so, nor how uncomfortable staff may be made to feel. To focus on other things suggests that only those with the “correct” views are worthy of rape counselling. It’s sinister.

But this is what happens. A transwoman gets appointed in a woman’s role at a rape crisis centre and the focus shifts from women to transwomen.

A transwoman gets appointed in a woman’s role in a political party and the focus of that role shifts from women to transwomen.

A transwomen wants a place in a women’s prison and the focus shifts from the needs and feelings of women to those of the transwoman.

A transwoman competes in an event at the Olympics, and the press conference questions shift focus from the women involved to the transwoman (“no thank you”).

A transwoman allegedly rapes their elderly demented mother and the focus shifts from the woman as a victim to the transwoman being misgendered with the wrong pronouns.

And so on, and so on…

Datun · 13/08/2021 12:29

I have a recollection from another thread about MW that a poster said they had had therapy from MW and that MW had laughed when she was talking about the rape. Also that MW had been scrolling on their phone in the session. MW has no interest whatsoever in helping anyone but MW.

Yes, I remember that. I think the woman said that Wadhwa was checking their watch throughout.

Who acts that way, especially in that environment, without being completely aware of the impression you're giving?

mnmumak · 13/08/2021 12:32

@Datun

I have a recollection from another thread about MW that a poster said they had had therapy from MW and that MW had laughed when she was talking about the rape. Also that MW had been scrolling on their phone in the session. MW has no interest whatsoever in helping anyone but MW.

Yes, I remember that. I think the woman said that Wadhwa was checking their watch throughout.

Who acts that way, especially in that environment, without being completely aware of the impression you're giving?

How was she providing therapy when she has no qualifications in delivering therapy?

Can anyone clarify this? Is she a qualified counsellor or other type of therapist? I was under the impression she wasn’t. If she is then I believe her registering body would be keen to hear about her discussing how bigoted some rape victims are and the need to correct their views...