Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

999 replies

herewegogc · 10/08/2021 21:27

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Waitwhat23 · 11/08/2021 18:00

@feelingmardy if this thread was on the Sex and Gender board, there would have been many, many more deletions given the incredibly strict talk guidelines specific to only that board and the constant monitoring by the misogyny monitors. I've read perfectly reasonable comments on this thread which would have had an instant deletion and possible strike on the other board. It's amazing that this thread haa been allowed to stand but brilliant for the amount of sunlight it's bringing to the issue.

TatoAndBeans · 11/08/2021 18:14

To quote @LastSummerHere You keep patting yourself on the back like you're a good girl and telling yourself the men approve. They don't...they fucking hate you just like they hate the rest of us and maybe even a little bit more, because they will hold you, a woman who shits over her own, in total disdain.

This. When the horrifying, inevitable consequences of putting transwomen in rape crisis centres, refuges, prisons, female wards etc happen; it won’t be the trans (or not trans, but exploiter of gender ideology) perpetrator who will be held to account. It will be the women who appointed them, who failed in their safeguarding duty, who backed them, who brushed genuine concerns under the carpet for fear of being branded “transphobic”.

nocturnalcatfreetogoodhome · 11/08/2021 18:14

@Wroxie

You do not have the right to invalidate other’s trauma and experiences just because it is not in line with your own ideation.

Trauma is subjection and manifests in extremely individualistic ways. I hope you experience more compassion at your worst than you are exuding now.

No one is excusing any racism/transphobia whatever. We are saying that when a woman (or man - CIS or otherwise) come forward as a victim of abuse that their needs should be prioritised over those of the counsellors.

If a woman in a hijab or a niqab has been violated in inexplicable ways and finds comfort in sharing her ordeal with someone of the same faith is she racist? No, sit her down with the counsellor in the hijab and prioritise the victim’s feelings.

If a woman has been assaulted and all that is sticking in her mind her attacker’s Adam’s apple and she is now having to divulge the worst moments of her life to someone and all she can see is the Adam’s apple and it’s taking her right back is her trauma suddenly invalidated? No, sit her down with the counsellor who does not have an Adam’s apple.

If the person who attacked you had shoulder length curly hair and you find it triggering to be in the presence of someone with shoulder length curly hair then let’s bring in someone who’s ginger.

A woman has been abused by her same sex partner she may seek comfort in the presence of a man, does that make her misogynistic. No, her brain is fucking BEGGING for her to be in the presence of someone who is entirely different to her attacker.

If a black woman had been attacked by a white man and she found the presence of white skin claustrophobic does that make her racist? FUCKING NO because even if you don’t find these things triggering doesn’t give you a right to say that others are out of order or dramatic or whatever else.

These may appear irrational and sexist/racist/transphobic/whatever but you know what else is irrational? Rape. These people have every excuse in the book not to be fucking rational because they have been abused in the worst ways possible and their trust in others and their belief in humanity has been irreparably tainted and they deserve to feel safe regardless of how ‘irrational’ it may seem.

You do not become a rape crisis counsellor to have your feelings validated. You are there FOR THE VICTIM and if the counsellors are not prepared to experience these people at their lowest and most vulnerable and all the fucked up shitness that entails then they are in the wrong profession.

Sometime a rape crisis counsellor of certain backgrounds and persuasions is simply not wanted and that is ok. Why? Because to the next person who comes along their presence may be nirvana and they could be entirely what that victim needs.

A transgender woman will be invaluable to a rape crisis centre because trans women deserve a safe place too and their presence may be just what they need. However if a victim comes in and says I feel really uncomfortable talking to a trans woman I want xyz then that does not give that trans counsellor (or any other counsellor) to make that victim feel any shitter than they already do.

HOW IS THIS DIFFICULT?!

Waitwhat23 · 11/08/2021 18:14

@arabellascott sadly, I think you're right about it being too late for Scotland. I'm truly ashamed of my country. Women's rights have been demolished and the chilling effect means we can't speak out openly. All I can take pride is the grassroots feminism movement here. Women won't wheesht.

Tuscancat · 11/08/2021 18:15

Exactly @ThumbWitchesAbroad

Tuscancat · 11/08/2021 18:16

Oh please, as if @Wroxie is XX.

nocturnalcatfreetogoodhome · 11/08/2021 18:17

I need a fucking lie down, that’s enough people for today.

paddlingon · 11/08/2021 18:19

I don't think whether victims are "ist" in some way is important when meeting trauma needs.

If a person is retraumatized by a therapist the therapy won't work.
It doesn't matter if it is a socially acceptable reason or not.

The goal of trauma therapy is to help the trauma victim. The single most important indicator of success is the relationship between the therapist and person coming for therapy.

The person who has experienced the trauma needs to feel comfortable with the therapist for the therapy to work, there is simply no point to therapy if they don't.

Judging people about whether their reasons to not wish to work with a specific therapist are okay or not is pointless, shaming and won't lead to good therapeutic outcomes.

Chickenyhead · 11/08/2021 18:31

I guess what worries me, as this will come to England, as many are already changing the dialogue to push it, is that victims will be so concerned at not saying the wrong thing, that they just won't reach out at all.

When raped, sometimes the hatred you feel to that person is so strong, you may lash out and call them the worst things possible. Because you had no agency in the rape.

If I then got pulled up for that justified hatred of a rapist, forced to consider myself at fault? Well that just reinforces the deep self blame and shame felt by rape victims. It puts that guilt right back on the victim, rather than the rapist.

An attitude like Wroxie's could lead to suicide very, very easily.

I'm not saying it's right to say bad things, but if it is about a rapist, fuck him. He has lost the right to respect. I'm not condoning the use of bad words, especially not aimed at innocent people trying to help. But about a rapist? Good on them, because that anger at the rapist is part of healing. Without it we self blame.

paddlingon · 11/08/2021 18:38

It is absolutely okay to use the words you want in therapy Ckickeny.

One of the exercises we do with dc is to get them to make some kind of representation of their abuser ( often in clay) then to destroy while hurling any words they want at the representation.

Expressing anger is an important part of therapy and judging what was said would be a therapeutic disaster.

paddlingon · 11/08/2021 18:40

I'm quite concerned that people appear to be offering trauma therapy without adequate training or clinically informed supervision.
Being non judgmental is beyond basic.

TheTallOakTrees · 11/08/2021 18:44

@waterlego

Validation of this certain type of TW must come before everything else- even the trauma of a rape victim. The narcissism is astonishing.
Yes. This.
Enough4me · 11/08/2021 18:50

It's hard to be heard, but one way to push back is to sign the petition to parliament to ensure sex as well as gender is recorded after sexual assaults, we need to push back where we can:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/590123

sleeponeday · 11/08/2021 18:56

[quote Enough4me]It's hard to be heard, but one way to push back is to sign the petition to parliament to ensure sex as well as gender is recorded after sexual assaults, we need to push back where we can:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/590123[/quote]
Thank you for this. The impotent rage this situation is causing me could do with an outlet!

Can I also suggest that anyone who has a couple of quid a month to spare could do worse than donate to Karen Ingala Smith's charity, Nia - who do indeed guarantee traumatised women genuinely single-sex provision. At least some good to some woman may come from this horrible situation, if enough of us channel our horror, anger and distress.

LoislovesStewie · 11/08/2021 19:11

I've signed the petition; thank you for telling me about this.

Anotheruser02 · 11/08/2021 19:23

[quote Wroxie]@TheKeatingFive

Why is it racist to say that you don't want a Black counsellor because their physical presence is triggering and upsetting to you, due to your experience... etc etc

It's racist because it's racist and it's transphobic because it's transphobic. This hypothetical person is literally scared (phobic) of someone trans, or Black, in my example. Again, in crisis, might be best to just get past that and deal with it in a longer-term therapeutic setting, if it continued to be an issue and the patient/victim wanted to deal with it. But even if it's best in that specific situation to just say "fine, you can speak to Jane, she's not trans or Black" or whatever doesn't mean that we need to pretend that the impulse doesn't stem from racism or transphobia.[/quote]
Characteristics of rape trauma syndrome include androphobia (fear of men), hyper-vigilance and paranoia, if a rape victim doesn't want to be alone with a man in any form that is evidence she has rape trauma syndrome Confused
Transwomen have the same male pattern violence as other men. Men do commit 99% of sexual assaults. Opportunistic sexual offenders have throughout history identified into safer groups so they can operate in plain sight, they are priests, samaritons, children's sport coaches and mentors, if being a woman with the trust that comes with being female is as easy as just saying "I am a woman" (look at the trans umbrella, we are not just talking about people with gender disphorya any more) then of course a vulnerable woman has cause to want to protect herself from that.

LoverOfLight · 11/08/2021 19:28

Can you please cite your sources saying transwomen commit sexual assault as often as men please?

LizzieW1969 · 11/08/2021 19:30

I’ve signed it, too, thank you for sharing it on here.

VestaTilley · 11/08/2021 19:30

YANBU.

That man is vile and should never have been hired for that role.

We have been, and continue to be, utterly failed by our politicians who aren’t doing anything to fix this mess.

FatCatThinCat · 11/08/2021 19:44

It is not transphobic for a rape victim to reject a transwoman as a therapist. They are not being rejected because they're trans, they're being rejected because they're male.

OhWhyNot · 11/08/2021 19:46

I’m afraid it’s always considered transphobic for women to reject or not accept trans women in any situation they feel they should be accepted

Why because the are male and feel it is their absolute right to decide what is right for us females

merrymouse · 11/08/2021 19:50

@LoverOfLight

Can you please cite your sources saying transwomen commit sexual assault as often as men please?
committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

However, you also need to bear in mind that ‘trans woman’ has become difficult to define as the trans umbrella is so large and it is a very subjective concept. Practically, under the ideology espoused by Stonewall et al a trans woman is anyone who says they are a trans woman.

HeddaAga · 11/08/2021 19:51

@LoverOfLight

Can you please cite your sources saying transwomen commit sexual assault as often as men please?
It doesn't take a massive leap of imagination if you really think about it, but here you go...

Transgender women exhibit a male-type pattern of criminality: Implications for legislators and policy makers.

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

Helleofabore · 11/08/2021 19:56

@LoverOfLight

Can you please cite your sources saying transwomen commit sexual assault as often as men please?
Are you querying Anotherusers point of Transwomen have the same male pattern violence as other men ?

Because this has been evidenced by the current statistics of the transwomen in prison who identify as women. Their rate of being charged with sex crimes is in no way close to the rate of women committing sex crimes.

There is also a Swedish study that, although small, indicated that pattern as well.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 11/08/2021 19:59

'Reframe your Trauma'

Gilead really is here, isn't it?

Chilling.

Relive your trauma more like. We already have to so much. So often. So painfully.

And it's still never over.