AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

@ifIwerenotanandroid

A dozen words in, I felt I knew where Wroxie would be going with this, but I didn't expect that post to plummet downhill quite so far or so quickly!

Dear oh dearie me.

The "cry laughing" emoji at the end of one of their posts was a nice touch.

As usual, the TRA side shows no empathy and no understanding of the situationand can only offer insults and strawmen.

You've done trans people absolutely no favours with your posts Wroxie.

for everyone who has shared their stories in this thread.

I have been watching the TRA movement unfold online over the past few years and there's a massive misogynistic streak running through it; a lot of transactivists fall over themselves to bully and threaten the women who speak out

Absolutely 100% this.

There has been misogyny hiding under ‘discrimination’ with this movement - that I did not see at all 20 years ago amongst any trans men or women.

I am very confident and settled in my own mind that calling this out does not mean I am transphobic. Maybe it’s because I am older and have been in the gay scene for years. However others who are younger have no clue to honest - I had a younger friend tell me it was all ‘very progressive’ because like a lot of younger women she hasn’t the wisdom and brutal experience that many women older or who have had a rougher time of life.

Chickeny do not let anyone shame you for your trauma because it doesn't fit their personal politics.

The wish for female people to sometimes be exclusively with other females particularly in situations of vulnerability, undress and trauma is absolutely widespread, and was considered perfectly normal and right without question until very recently - as seen by the fact no one is pressing for mixed sex across the board provision, only that an exception is made for which ever male born people wish to be with females. (Regardless of female consent or impact upon them.)

The only reason it is in question is because it presents a boundary that some natal male people do not like. It is not for the benefit of female people; it exclusively benefits natal male people. 'Re framing' the distress and challenges enforced mix sex spaces create as female people's fault and something they must work on in themselves is really the ultimate step in misogyny and disrespect for those seen as inferiors. It is about achieving natal male aims and benefits by coercing and correcting females. Someone ought to be feeling shame over this all right, but it isn't traumatised women.

I had to book an appointment yesterday and intentionally chose a female practitioner. I will not be able to accept the necessary touch or talk about the things that the appointment will need to cover except with another female. If my only option was a male practitioner I would not make the appointment. This is every day reality for females. That some people who are not natal females cannot understand this demonstrates how unique it is to the female experience.

I thought diversity was about respecting and celebrating difference and lived experience.

It should daft to suggest that a therapist who works with people who experience trauma doesn't understand that sometimes people don't want to work with them because they are triggered by something about them.

If your mental health as a worker isn't robust enough to accept this and not react personally then trauma therapy isn't the work for you.

You need more supervision and probably more training. Your emotional response as a worker isn't the responsibility of the person with trauma.

It's a really racist trope to draw a false equivalence between transwomen and black women.

Always good to remember than anyone can say they are anything on the internet.

to any of us survivors who found some of the recent posts callous beyond words. Fortunately, I've developed a Teflon coating over time from regular run ins with people who think men's feelings are more important than women's needs. But we're not all as lucky

[quote littlbrowndog]And this is excellent by jo

thecritic.co.uk/reframe-your-trauma/[/quote]
On 9 August WGS tweeted a list of organisations that it had been in touch with, confirming which were genuinely single-sex and which included men.

This drew a furious response from Rape Crisis Scotland, which released a statement condemning what it described as “coordinated and harmful claims circulating about Rape Crisis services in Scotland, stemming from a Twitter thread that questioned the provision of women-only spaces in Rape Crisis Centres”.

In a stunning reversal, the professional feminist class at RCS claimed to be under attack from survivors of rape. Other government-funded groups including Engender leapt to their defence, effectively dismissing those asking questions as trolls.

But RCS had only been questioned about whether women needing support could be guaranteed a women-only service. They were being held accountable by their service users. And this discussion is timely; last week frontline services for women and girls were given £5 million to deal with additional pressures that have occurred during the pandemic. Last year Engender received a grant from the Scottish government of £362,304.

This quote (my bold) says all you need to know.

Validation of this certain type of TW must come before everything else- even the trauma of a rape victim. The narcissism is astonishing.

@Congressdingo

We should all be fucking incandescent with fury over this We are and have been for actual years now. We were shouting into a void, silenced often, barred from sites because we told the truth and it's not wanted. We have seen what was coming and now even on here where we are at least allowed (within guidelines) to say what we believe we have been hived off to our own section, hidden from most people because we are the bigots. I cant tell you how many times some woman gets it and posts in aibu or similar and poster after poster has a little "you are bigoted wimmins " and gets the whole post moved to our little corner, never to be seen by the vast majority of users. Its finally now becoming more well known and harder to hide us away but I do wonder if it's now too late.

I think it is clearly too late for Scotland. We've had it. The SNP will make a coalition with the Greens and women are being arrested for 'hate crimes' that are so absurd I can hardly believe it. We are through the looking glass, here.

The rest of the country, look and learn and make bloody sure you don't let them do the same to you. I have no idea how we roll back from this. We can't even protest it - who is going to put themselves out there and risk a visit from the police if they have children, a job to think about?

@Jorrris

It is so abusive. Women get abused by men. And then men seek to abuse women a second time by calling them bigots for not wanting rape /sexual violence support from males who identify themselves as women. It makes me feel sick that this continued abuse of women is encouraged. Right in front of us.

Agreed Jorris, it is sickening, and I believe deliberate and the power enjoyed.

I don't want to upset anyone further and these are just my thoughts on the matter. The people pushing the agenda to destroy womens' rights believe they have succeeded. They are being open about their intentions because they believe they have the force of the law/government on their side. They don't believe they can be challenged and overturned now. I think the comments and actions are going to get worse because they have power and influence on their side, and they believe they are untouchable.

The Times has picked this issue up I see.

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/2021.08.11-114849/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bigoted-people-may-be-challenged-comments-by-trans-head-of-edinburgh-rape-crisis-sparks-controversy-xdcpfr0cv#selection-955.0-958.0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.is/2021.08.11-114849/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bigoted-people-may-be-challenged-comments-by-trans-head-of-edinburgh-rape-crisis-sparks-controversy-xdcpfr0cv#selection-955.0-958.0

^people much smarter than me take down your arguments with ease every minute
when you dare to post in places that aren't basically a closed shop like Twitter or whatever^

How is Twitter "a closed shop"? Where are all these impressive "takedowns", because I've never seen any? Maybe I'm missing something that would convince me it's not all a misogynistic power grab!

I'd like to see these impressive take-downs too. I've spent years reading stuff from both sides of the argument and have never seen anything remotely convincing on the subject of transwomen being women.

What I don't understand is how it has become reasonable to state that transwomen are women. This isn't the legal position unless they have the gender reassignment certificate. Without it, they remain the sex born legally.

So effectively transwomen includes legally defined males with their male genitals, as well as some who may legally be women, who aren't biological women at all. In short all are males biologically and only some a female legally.

So given the law, how is this described as anything other than a unisex provision? Describing it otherwise is a lie.

[quote Wroxie]@Theeyeballsinthesky yes, unfortunately, if we're talking simple majorities, most people are conservative in the nastiest of ways - racist, xenophobic, sexist, classist, transphobic, all of it. You only need to look at who gets voted into office most often to see that's true. I don't class those people as "reasonable and decent" though.

It is a simple truth that the vast majority of anti-trans social media noise does come from a surprisingly small and obsessive group of people. They make noise out of all proportion to their size. Maybe it's something the decent people of the world should learn from 😹[/quote]
Interesting that on a thread with women talking about having to reframe their trauma after sexual assault to placate males; where women are angry, afraid and upset, you declare it to be 'noise', conflate it with every 'ism' and phobia, and place a crying with laughter emoji. We see you.

I am a cis woman, if it matters

Not really, it's a meaningless statement, as there are only female women and most of us don't have any use for "cis", but you call yourself whatever little label makes you happy.

[quote beastlyslumber]@ifIwerenotanandroid I don't understand your comment. I am a woman and wroxie was having a go at me because I called them out for victim-blaming and virtue-signalling. They responded with that nasty comment about how they're more traumatised than anyone else.[/quote]
Sorry I confused you.

My comment was meant to indicate that I found Wroxie's language & attitudes... what are we allowed to say... atypical for the majority of MumsNet's demographic?

It was in no way directed at you, & I apologise that it wasn't clear enough. It's a phrase that was in use on another thread, a couple of days ago, & I just assumed that people would recognise it.

• android offers & to everyone she confused -

Redtooth

In a stunning reversal, the professional feminist class at RCS claimed to be under attack from survivors of rape.

Amazing.

Just, WTF?

It's amazing how much abuse wroxie can throw at others on this thread and no action is taken. But many challenges to her are deleted. MN seems to have an agenda.i wish there was a more neutral forum to discuss these matters on.

I find it incomprehensible that you can read pages upon pages of devastated women explaining how they don't hate trans people but they just want to speak to a female counsellor, and then come on here with a load of irrelevant bullshit intended to shame rape victims for their trauma responses.

I don't. Many of these people are blinkered knee jerk ideologues. No one can be allowed not to have to mouth the nonsensical mantra, or the whole house of cards will come down, and we can't have women being put first, can we?

@Chickenyhead

What I don't understand is how it has become reasonable to state that transwomen are women. This isn't the legal position unless they have the gender reassignment certificate. Without it, they remain the sex born legally.

So effectively transwomen includes legally defined males with their male genitals, as well as some who may legally be women, who aren't biological women at all. In short all are males biologically and only some a female legally.

So given the law, how is this described as anything other than a unisex provision? Describing it otherwise is a lie.

By doing what Wroxie did to you so successfully. Accusing anyone who doesn't conform to their self-contradictory doublespeak of being a hateful bigot, on a par with racists and homophobes. Throw in a healthy dash of new insults like "terf" (it doesn't even make sense! It's such a shit insult!) and a background of misogynistic and vicious abuse to anyone who says male and female are different and it sometimes matters, and voila! Everyone is too scared to state the absolute bleeding fucking obvious. Though Wroxie, like the rest of them, can sure spot the natal women when it's time to start the campaign.

But as we saw earlier, there isn't anything behind it. It's all empty accusations and intimidation, and once you stop letting that cow you, they crumble. They even tell you they're not clever enough to refute it!

There's nothing there!

Why is it racist to say that you don't want a Black counsellor because their physical presence is triggering and upsetting to you, due to your experience... etc etc

When somebody conflates genetic variations in levels of skin pigmentation with sex differences it tells you something very worrying about their attitude to race.

But as we saw earlier, there isn't anything behind it. It's all empty accusations and intimidation, and once you stop letting that cow you, they crumble. They even tell you they're not clever enough to refute it!

There's nothing there!

Great point. Then it's all aboard the Flounce Express, because they're not getting anywhere and they want to kid themselves they "won". I don't care what these people think. Not one iota. I'm just going to keep speaking up.

It's part of the charade. If you want to be taller you put on platforms and act it out.

If you want to be a woman you put on a dress and go into environments where you can live vicariously through their experiences. Rape victims talking about abuse explain the most vulnerable side of being a women. Men who can never really feel, know or understand this want this access.

It's like moths to a flame, they are driven to force themselves on but they fail to step back and realise it's fake. They can never regress to a single cell and have Y changed to X.