AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

[quote Tuscancat]@Xenia I used to agree with you until I read Grayson Perry's accounts of how turned on he gets by dressing as a little girl and going out in public. I don't really want to be unwittingly coopted into anyones fetish.
Although I suppose if more trans people were out we would see more men in dresses and that fetish wouldn't be possible anymore...[/quote]
I remember reading about Perry's choice of a dress with a stiff petticoat to make the skirt part of a dress stick out was to disguise his erection.

I haven't watched his programmes since as I can't get the image out of my mind.

@Wroxie I do understand where you are coming from about not wanting to deal with racism or bigotry at work, and I agree nor should you have to.

The issue is that nobody seems to want to address from that side of the argument is that, there is no need for racism. There is no need for bigotry. But there genuinely is a need for many women, when faced with sexual violence, to not be treated by a man, due to trauma and triggers.

We know that in medical settings we are well within our rights to request a same sex doctor or chaperone. Why are they insisting on make it a big deal that when it comes to sex crimes, where it is pretty clearly understandable why someone may not wish to be treated by a man!

I just don't get it.

@Wroxie

I'm unfollowing the thread, nothing I say will matter and people much smarter than me take down your arguments with ease every minute when you dare to post in places that aren't basically a closed shop like Twitter or whatever. I'll leave you all to it, I did what I came here to do, which is to point out that not everyone on MN is on the transphobe train- I have a lovely transgender friend that say sometimes she comes and reads stuff here as a form of mild self-harm (like looking at those disgusting zit popping videos- it makes you sick but it's so horrifically fascinating you can't look away) and if someone like her is reading, just know that you're not the only one gawping at the giant blackheads (I think i stretched the metaphor too far 😹)

So send these undefeatable geniuses here as your champions. See them take us down so comprehensively. Wouldn't you love to see that? Why don't you?

And your disingenuous attempts to guilt trip us since you can't refute a single thing we're saying won't work either.

[quote Wroxie]@beastlyslumber you can take that little attitude and put it somewhere private, sis. If we want to have trauma olympics I think I'd be in with a chance for the gold. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm fucking victimising you, or anyone else.[/quote]
Women can always tell.

@JaneTheVirgin

I honestly want to vomit reading that. That is despicable!

Women who have been raped by men COULDN'T GIVE A FUCK HOW YOU, A MALE BODIED PERSON, IDENTIFY. That does NOT make them a bigot.

Signed, a rape survivor and sexual assault trained Advanced Nurse Practitioner.

This ^^

Also I feel like I need to say that I have consistently and somewhat vociferously defended trans rights on the mumsnet feminism boards but this is not okay and defensible.

I'm unfollowing the thread, nothing I say will matter and people much smarter than me take down your arguments with ease every minute when you dare to post in places that aren't basically a closed shop like Twitter or whatever.

That is brilliant! You obviously have a very inflated opinion of those you have designated as thought leaders or you believe people's attempt to distract from well evidenced answers with emotive manipulative reasoning is a 'take down'...

This does say much about you and less about MNers.

is indefensible*

MN is a place where people can put any views. I have no problems hearing trans people's views at all. I want open debate from anyone.

I'm unfollowing the thread, nothing I say will matter and people much smarter than me take down your arguments with ease every minute

Really? People much smarter than you? What would these people smarter than you say? Are you sure you understand the position clearly here if you don't feel able to argue it and rely on people you perceive as much smarter than you to know best? Because I've never once come across someone who was able to take the GC position down with ease when it comes to trans ideology. Normally people just plop and run, or they dump poorly thought out sources. They never debate well. Those who actually do debate and think about it come to understand what it is we are saying to them.and then they feel angry at the level of gaslighting they have endured. I get it. I do. I used to want to be kind. But not at the expense of myself, my daughter's and all other women. There has to be a time when we say no more. And for some women that time comes later than others.

The level of internalised misogyny you have there might be a starting point for you to work your way out of this. I really hope you do. We will be here for you when that happens.

I am flabbergasted that someone has come on here and called a traumatised rape survivor who cannot be in the same room as some with a penis a bigot.

I am horrified that correctly sexing someone, perceiving a male born to be male born, is called equivalent to using racial slurs.

This has been done on a thread where the OP is so traumatised that she needed to take the day off work.

I didn’t realise that there were people like that around. I feel sick 🤢

@Wroxie

I'm unfollowing the thread, nothing I say will matter and people much smarter than me take down your arguments with ease every minute when you dare to post in places that aren't basically a closed shop like Twitter or whatever. I'll leave you all to it, I did what I came here to do, which is to point out that not everyone on MN is on the transphobe train- I have a lovely transgender friend that say sometimes she comes and reads stuff here as a form of mild self-harm (like looking at those disgusting zit popping videos- it makes you sick but it's so horrifically fascinating you can't look away) and if someone like her is reading, just know that you're not the only one gawping at the giant blackheads (I think i stretched the metaphor too far 😹)

I hope that this post stands.

So... no answers to more accurate equivalences than you over simplified version (that I assume you picked up off twitter).

But more ad hom attacks, stating that we are all set on harming others and what.... we are the giant blackheads???

I can suggest that in actual fact what will happen is that readers will see your very prejudiced posts that lack logic, that you cannot answer any questions with any thought other than regurgitated trope from twitter. More importantly, and horrendously, you shame victims of violence who state their need for a female person at any stage of their reporting or treatment.

That is what people will take away from your posts Wroxie.

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out Wroxie.

LittleMyTopKnot

You and me both

This is disgraceful.

I am lucky enough never to have been victim of any sort of assault. I am not traumatised. But I still don't want biological men in women's safe spaces.

Not all men are violent, not all men are rapists or abusers. In fact; most of them aren't.

I still don't want them there and am entitled to not have them there.

Not all trans women are violent, not all trans women are rapists or abusers. In fact; most of them aren't.

I still don't want them there and am entitled to not have them there.

@LittleMyTopKnot

I am flabbergasted that someone has come on here and called a traumatised rape survivor who cannot be in the same room as some with a penis a bigot.

I am horrified that correctly sexing someone, perceiving a male born to be male born, is called equivalent to using racial slurs.

This has been done on a thread where the OP is so traumatised that she needed to take the day off work.

I didn’t realise that there were people like that around. I feel sick 🤢

Me too. It has been really eye opening to me how little women matter. Misogyny is ingrained in our society.

Weird post, Wroxie

Many/most of us know trans people.

I consider it transphobic and also a sweeping generalisation for you to suggest that all trans people want to erode women's rights in the way MW does. I won't ask for your post to be deleted though because I believe in free speech and sunlight on difficult issues.

Also, many of us are friends with people who hold different opinions. I don't get huffy on threads that criticise BoJo because I've got one Tory friend who's having a tough time right now.

Was anyone else actually disappointed by Wroxie's "I could take you all down, if only I were clever!"?

I was sort of hoping for a "I am not left handed!" sudden turn.

Was anyone else actually disappointed by Wroxie's "I could take you all down, if only I were clever!"?

I am actually rather tired of those who come onto threads post shaming posts and never back them up with any considered thought, any evidence or just anything other than their intention to denigrate women discussing the conflicts of rights with another group.

It is the same old thing, recycled. And always ended in name calling and more denigration and the completely clueless 'you should all get to know some trans people....' like people don't have friends, family members, work colleagues that fit this description.

It is also very transphobic, because it assumes that nobody on the post that disagrees with them comes under the trans umbrella.

thread. not post

I can suggest that in actual fact what will happen is that readers will see your very prejudiced posts that lack logic, that you cannot answer any questions with any thought other than regurgitated trope from twitter. More importantly, and horrendously, you shame victims of violence who state their need for a female person at any stage of their reporting or treatment.

The worst of this is that she’s actually a counsellor for Rape Crisis.

@Helleofabore

Was anyone else actually disappointed by Wroxie's "I could take you all down, if only I were clever!"?

I am actually rather tired of those who come onto threads post shaming posts and never back them up with any considered thought, any evidence or just anything other than their intention to denigrate women discussing the conflicts of rights with another group.

It is the same old thing, recycled. And always ended in name calling and more denigration and the completely clueless 'you should all get to know some trans people....' like people don't have friends, family members, work colleagues that fit this description.

It is also very transphobic, because it assumes that nobody on the post that disagrees with them comes under the trans umbrella.

Yes, agreed completely.

But that's all there is for them. And the fear of being labelled a hateful, harmful bigot is largely what keeps people silent or complicit, because honestly, nobody can argue that men are women and our bodies don't ever matter.

We are aware of the long fight there was for same sex marriage and relationship rights, and so, as a PP said, this lobby leaps on to them to make a false equivalence. But they are not equivalent. Same sex marriage takes nothing away from anyone else. It doesn't affect anyone except same sex couples who wish to marry.

But erasing the meaning of "woman" and denying that there's any meaningful difference between a natal woman and an intact male person who feels like one, does take a lot away from half the population. Some might not mind (generally those who haven't thought about it or aren't aware of what it means) but very many do. It takes away safe spaces, sporting fairness and many other things.

There are solutions available that could meet everyone's needs: men, women and trans men and women. But they never want those. Only the solution that denies women something, only the zero sum game solution, is enough for them.

Why?