AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

It's racist because it's racist and it's transphobic because it's transphobic.

And you are wrong because you're wrong.

doesn't mean that we need to pretend that the impulse doesn't stem from racism or transphobia.

The impulse in your imaginary victim stems from trauma, not "ism" or "phobia", and isn't either one of those things anyway.

If you can't understand the enormous difference, you've got no business doing anything at all in a centre for the treatment of trauma.

How can people not understand that this would be frightening or intimidating to a female victim?!

Because a certain type of trans activist has decided that by the power of magical thinking, we can believe trans women are literally the same as women. But they aren’t. You can’t change sex and the body will always reflect that. This has to be a acknowledged before we can have any sensible debate.

Why is it racist to say that you don't want a Black counsellor because their physical presence is triggering and upsetting to you, due to your experience... etc etc

Thank you Wroxie.

So, let's say there was a therapist who was not a black counsellor, yet claimed to be a black counsellor, and who had no life experience as a black person, but worked in a specialised unit. If a person using the service knew this, you would feel that the person asking for another therapist would be a bigot and would need to have 're-education' included in their future therapy?

*The impulse in your imaginary victim stems from trauma, not "ism" or "phobia", and isn't either one of those things anyway.

If you can't understand the enormous difference, you've got no business doing anything at all in a centre for the treatment of trauma*

Exactly this.

And YANBU OP

If I were a trans woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who had a phobia or hatred of me, just as a Black woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was blatantly racist towards me. It's not going to be a useful therapeutic relationship for either party. But that doesn't mean that the victim gets a pass on her phobia or hatred. If she politely said "I prefer to speak to someone who isn't transgender" and she was in active crisis, probably would be best to skip over that - but if it kept coming up or she used slurs or if the only person available wasn't a cis woman, well, same thing that would have happened if there were no white colleagues available to help my racist counsellee - you either get over yourself real quick-like and take the help on offer without saying nasty shit to the people trying to help you, or you go somewhere else for help. Being a victim doesn't give you the right to victimise someone else.

Mridhul referred to ‘bigots’ being victims of sexual violence. I haven’t listened to the podcast, I don’t want to give it more traffic, but as far as I can see she hasn’t defined what she means by ‘bigots’.

Does she mean women who routinely bully transpeople, commit acts of violence against them and use transphobic slurs? (You know, the more traditional definition of ‘bigot’.) Or does she mean women who are frightened and deeply traumatised after experiencing male sexual violence and wish to be examined and counselled by a female?

I strongly suspect she means the latter, particularly in light of the fact she left the SNP over a law that allows rape victims to insist on being examined by someone of the same sex rather than the same gender.

Race isn’t relevant here so that’s a false equivalence. Sex is. Because we are talking about sex-based violence. Rape can ONLY be committed by a ‘person with a penis’.

^ this, thank you for putting that into words, @Helleofabore.

@midsummabreak

If a woman is not comfortable speaking to a trans woman about her trauma that doesn’t mean she hates trans people. If a woman isn’t comfortable referring to herself as a ‘cis woman’ that doesn’t mean she hates trans people.

Agreed @midsummabreak

The woman in crisis should be the centre of this.
The finer feelings of the Counsellor matter yes, the woman in crisis should be offered a counsellor of her choice, that she's happy with.

I am a rape survivor. I am also a person who volunteered in a Scottish Survivors charity whilst I was qualifying for my BACP accredited Strathclyde Uni Masters. Whilst I was working there, one young woman refused to speak to me because I was 'a stuck up English bitch'. Her choice. My accent had obviously triggered stuff for her, rightly or wrongly, when she didn't need ANY additional triggers. We found a her a more local worker she felt more comfortable with. (actually, later she and I did do some work together of her choice - she was an amazing woman and I had nothing but respect for what she'd survived. I shared a (very small part) of what had led me there & she said she was sorry she'd judged me as 'she didn't' think woman like me got raped too'. We both learned from each other.
That is perhaps a clumsy example but I feel it is very important. The raison d'etre of Rape Crisis is to help women who are in crisis due to being raped - that is ALL that matters. The 'political correctness' of the organisation / the CEO's statements should come second.

Completely tone deaf for someone working in that field to come out with something like that.

@TheKeatingFive

How can people not understand that this would be frightening or intimidating to a female victim?!

Because a certain type of trans activist has decided that by the power of magical thinking, we can believe trans women are literally the same as women. But they aren’t. You can’t change sex and the body will always reflect that. This has to be a acknowledged before we can have any sensible debate.

Yes exactly. Except you can’t reason with these people. They’ll argue that black is white until the cows come home.

The misogyny is so rampant that they expect women to roll over and accept everything that they want. And all their feelings are validated by us just taking their demands and allowing them access and control over our spaces.

NO THANKYOU.

What’s so frightening is that this just isn’t being reported by the media. I think if most people knew what was really going on here there’d be absolutely no support for it

As counsellors, it's not your job to tell people off.

Of course you're human. Of course people can say hurtful things. Of course you will have limits.

But it's not your job to correct racism, sexism etc. You are not there to be corrective or make people woke. You are not there to make moral judgments.

You are there to help them rehabilitate their lives.

If you cannot understand that, then you are not suited to the job.

having just read @Helleofabore's post I see that mine is a bit basic!
But I stand by my point that the wishes of the service user should be paramount.

Yes, that is the way to do it. Some people might not like me because I am white or my class or because I am English not Scottish or females so getting someone to help a traumatised person who is a good fit for them instead is the kinder way to proceed rather than saying they are racist or anti trans.

If we move beyond rape survivors to women wanting medical staff who are XX female I think that is a reasonable request too as someone will be seeing your vagina etc and for years we have accepted women can request a female doctor.

When it gets to less vulnerable situations it will be different - eg if you don't want the supermarket girl to be a man in a dress that might be your problem and you had better use Aldi instead of the local Tesco where the trans person is.

@Wroxie interesting choice of username.

You wouldn't make it through basic training with that attitude at any woman centered support service I have worked at.

Also the vast majority of people men, women, young and old support safeguarding and single sex services over the validation and feelings of a tiny minority.
It is not inclusive if it excludes the majority.

Wroxie, why aren't you answering any of the questions people are asking? Do you not see it as problematic that we should just accept your view because you think you're right?

I'm unfollowing the thread, nothing I say will matter and people much smarter than me take down your arguments with ease every minute when you dare to post in places that aren't basically a closed shop like Twitter or whatever. I'll leave you all to it, I did what I came here to do, which is to point out that not everyone on MN is on the transphobe train- I have a lovely transgender friend that say sometimes she comes and reads stuff here as a form of mild self-harm (like looking at those disgusting zit popping videos- it makes you sick but it's so horrifically fascinating you can't look away) and if someone like her is reading, just know that you're not the only one gawping at the giant blackheads (I think i stretched the metaphor too far 😹)

Because a certain type of trans activist has decided that by the power of magical thinking, we can believe trans women are literally the same as women. But they aren’t. You can’t change sex and the body will always reflect that. This has to be a acknowledged before we can have any sensible debate

There's also the added element of trans activists like her seeming to think that they need to invalidate and disprove women's victimhood or status as a vulnerable group and constantly explain to us how trans women are the oppressed people.

Like both groups can't be oppressed? Literally telling rape victims to check their privilege because they are not as marginalised as trans women is just mind blowingly insensitive and ridiculous.

@Xenia I used to agree with you until I read Grayson Perry's accounts of how turned on he gets by dressing as a little girl and going out in public. I don't really want to be unwittingly coopted into anyones fetish.
Although I suppose if more trans people were out we would see more men in dresses and that fetish wouldn't be possible anymore...

people much smarter than me take down your arguments with ease every minute

But you can’t take them down? You can’t argue your own position?

What does that tell you? 🤔

@Wroxie at twitter not being a closed shop. Funniest thing I've read in ages.

Imagine thinking that knowingly adding to the trauma of rape survivors is a-ok, just because they are guilty of "wrongthink"

It's racist because it's racist and it's transphobic because it's transphobic.

Conflating racism with transphobia in order to push your point is never a good look. But then again trans ideology has always piggybacked on other issues to make themselves seem more legitimate. Without doing that they would never have gained so much ground and destroyed so much of women's services and rights.

The adding the T to the LGB, and the transing of stonewall, who once did so much for LGB rights, but now is appallingly homophobic. And of course the men who claim that transwomen are a subset of women, just like black women / Jewish women / lesbians. Do you think that ok too? Do you agree with that position?

What's sad is that you can't even recognise what you're doing. It's pretty clear to other people though.

I did what I came here to do, which is to point out that not everyone on MN is on the transphobe train

Wroxie, how fucking DARE you. How dare you come onto a thread on which women are talking about their trauma, and throw your baseless accusations around. It's an absolute disgrace. Wake up.

A dozen words in, I felt I knew where Wroxie would be going with this, but I didn't expect that post to plummet downhill quite so far or so quickly!

Dear oh dearie me.