To try CIO?

[Babymeanswashing]

I know it’s a contentious issue on here, but AIBU to try CIO on a nine month old?

Attitudes are variable. I don’t believe it will have her growing up like a child in a Romanian orphanage but my main worry is that it just won’t work and she’ll end up completely hysterical and still sleeping badly.

I’m eager to avoid her growing up a poor sleeper tbh.

Bear in mind I haven’t done it yet so don’t totally flame me!

Another vote for Ferber. Worked with both of mine, both sleeping through the night within 3 nights and no more crying than they did when I was trying unsuccessfully to settle them by cuddling in the night. Would absolutely not do CIO at any age. Couldn’t live with myself.

Ferber is hard but it’s worth it. Don’t necessarily go by the rules, go by what feels right. I did Ferber with an extremely wilful baby and she slept happier and better within 48 hours.

Leaving my little ones to cry doesn't make biological sense to me. There is a reason we feel guilty over it I reckon.

Ignoring the sleep and naps, have you tried upping her food during the day? Nice filling things like porridge and carbs. Also with the cosleeping you could do it with a next2me type set up. My small man sleeps pants in his own room and sleeps really well with us (we transitioned him back to his room much later). We effectively gave him a safe sleep space in an extention to our bed so we all slept comfortably and even when he did wake it was minimal.

We’re the same with the third nap. If he skips it and I try an early bedtime, he just takes double the length of time to get to sleep (two hours…) and is guaranteed to be up at 5am. Whereas if he has a 3rd nap he can be settled within an hour and will sleep until 7am. Not sure how to drop it and it’s a complete pain getting him to do it. It’s been a good six weeks of us trying to drop it for good and he’s 8mo. Just seems you’re getting a hard time, and wanted to say I know what you mean about the 3rd nap!

Definitely try and switch to only offering water at night, she will get used to it snd up her milk / food during the day. Persevere!

In regards to CIO- I did it with both of my kids at 7 months old each time. They're now 2&3 and absolutely fine.

The longest they cried was about 18 mins, after 3 days they both slept 7-7.

We did due to the close age gap between them, snd at that time my son was just waking up every hour, couldn't do that long term.

Good luck!

So it’s not even half twelve and I’ve been in to her 4 times.

That’s not good for her or me. She needs undisturbed rest. I’m not saying I will do CIO or that it will work but it isn’t me being ‘lazy’. I’ve already tried a lot of these suggestions and for whatever reason they just don’t work.

I genuinely don’t know what to do but the situation as it is isn’t practical, for anybody.

I live somewhere where everyone sleep trains. Didn't know it was a faux pas until I mentioned it on my Mumsnet bus and some people were horrified....then they DM'd me for advice

Anyway, I really liked the advice on Bonne Nuit Bebe's Instagram. She has some good stuff on schedules: https://instagram.com/bonnenuitbaby?utmmmedium=copylink

I'd also suggest night weaning - that helped us a lot. DS soon got bored when he was being given water at night instead of a snack .

What a spiteful thing to say. You clearly have no idea what it's like to go months without sleep.
CIO isn't some form of child abuse, it's a way of getting your baby to sleep and allowing the parents to sleep.
Lucky you if you didn't have to use it but that doesn't mean you get to critise other people's choices

That was to @1940s. Not sure why the quote failed.

I hd twins and tried CIO at about 6 months. It worked fast. Two nights of awfulness, one night of semi-awfulness and then blissful peace and two babies who were suddenly much more well rested. IIRC, we did dream feed them a bottle of milk at around 11 pm.

A decade or so later and I have one great sleeper and one poor sleeper (which mirrors another friend with twins who co-slept until they went to their own rooms and a friend with two close in age who did Ferber).

I went with CIO because when they were younger and I had them on my own I found I was frequently in the position, when they were tired, of being unable to comfort them both at the same time even when they both cried. I would cuddle one for a few minutes until she stopped crying, then put her down and move to the other (couldn't safely hold both together for long at all). The first would then start crying when put down. I would go back and forth between them with none of us getting what we needed. Eventually I decided to just concentrate on settling one of them until they were properly asleep. The first time I did this, the one I wasn't cuddling settled all on her own without me before the one I was cuddling. I realised (eventually - sleep deprivation made me a little slow on the uptake!) that I'd probably been over stimulating them with the comforting. I no longer think every cry needs attention, and disagree that it is necessary to always respond, though you do need to become attuned to your baby's different cries.

Doesn't mean it will work for you, but it may be worth trying. To be honest, I think the younger they are, the easier it is (providing they aren't so young they need to be eating).

I know it's tough OP. I'm holding my 21mo because she's under the weather so I still get it, so many of us know what it's like. I think you're best off picking something and sticking with it for a few nights, and it needs a gradual adjustment. Look up wake windows and gradually adjust down to two naps to fit this. I think we had to go to a 5-10 minute cat nap for that one then we dropped it after a few days of that, bringing bedtime a lot earlier. Overtiredness is a killer for bedtime so when you do drop it if its tough bring bedtime even earlier than you think. Like a PP said you'll eventually go to 2 naps, 1 nap, no nap and these transitions all need a bit of work and then suddenly it's much better for a bit. I know you're anxious that this will make things worse but it will have to happen at some point and doing it gradually and with a bit of planning really helps.

Night weaning - I breastfed so a bit different but I increased solids in the day and reduced feeds at night, you could try giving an ounce less at a time and cutting down gradually that way?

Sorry if you've already said and I've missed it but do you have a partner to support at night? My DH is still a godsend when I'm up with DD and has her downstairs first thing while I go back to sleep for an hour or so. Working as a team has really helped us all.

How do you put your baby down to sleep? What’s her sleep association ?

Both of mine were the same and still needed 3 naps at 9mo old too. Although they did drop to just 2 soon after. I used to put them down to a schedule.

Personally if she's waking at 7 I would make sure she has her first nap no later than 9.

So our schedule would look like

7am wake
9am (or even 8.30) 1st nap
10am wake
12noon 2nd nap
1pm wake
3.30pm 3rd nap
4pm awake
8pm bedtime

And when they drop to two we made it 2 hours after waking for their first nap, 3 hours after waking for 2nd nap and 4 hours after waking for bedtime and it worked really well.

But she doesn’t. So it doesn’t matter what Gina Ford, Lucy Wolfe, Tracey Hogg all say, if she won’t nap after two hours awake then I don’t know how to make her without resorting to brandy!

My youngest absolutely hated her cot, never slept in it once.

We got a floor bed and one of us would lay on it with her til she fell asleep. It was fantastic and worked straight away. She would sleep for 9/10 hours straight.

Once she was about 2, we moved her to a toddler bed with no problems at all x

If you night wean, she should start sleeping much better. She will cry for milk for the first couple of nights which will not be nice but at least you or dh can stay and comfort her.

Sorry you've had another bad night op. Sending imaginary coffee your way... If you've reached the point then you've reached the point. No judgement from me, I've been there. Decent sleep is important for you all. Vital even. Hope it works.

I am not a fan of cio at all. I think you could try night weaning and also pushing second nap later. Then you might not need the 3rd nap

@Rosebel

What a spiteful thing to say. You clearly have no idea what it's like to go months without sleep. CIO isn't some form of child abuse, it's a way of getting your baby to sleep and allowing the parents to sleep. Lucky you if you didn't have to use it but that doesn't mean you get to critise other people's choices

Of course I can criticise someone who half heartedly approached gentle sleep training, is unsure if they're doing it right (uneducated on the topic) and then wants to do the most most extreme sleep training whilst mocking the awful situation in some orphanages. It's horrific.

And trust me I had months of bad sleep and I put so so much effort in until waiting until the right time to do proper gentle sleep training. I soon had a child who sleeps the full night with no lasting damage.

The OP has a lazy blase attitude to something the overwhelming massive majority of parents know to be wrong. To exit your child's bedroom leave them 'hysterical' and go in the next morning. I wouldn't do that to a puppy I'd just bought home or to a teenage child or adult.... let alone a child I'd also not put full effort into helping with gentle methods.

I think I’m just not going to hang round here, that’s so not accurate at all and as I said in my OP I haven’t even done it. But there are too many people like this on MN and they never get dealt with.

Just try it. It will take a few days which is in no way comparable to being in an orphanage, FFS. After that you will have a better rested child and a better rested mother, which is worth it. if you want to talk about parenting instincts and not leaving the baby to cry, you can think it is your job as a parent to teach the baby to sleep for long term benefits of both of you, just like it is your job to take them to get vaccinated at 8 weeks and to tell them off when they throw toys at the age of 2; both those things will also make them cry but are for their benefit long term.

I got HV advice how to do it. The problem was that my DC asked for boob every 45 min when going through the 4mo sleep regression. The solution was to offer a contact muslin as a comforter (if DC had been older we would have used a teddy), offer boob every 3h, and otherwise have my DH comfort DC but not offer milk. DC was very upset initially but it took 2 days to settle and there are no attachment issues from those 2 days 2 years ago (!))

Please don’t! It’ll lead to issues for your child when they are older. It’s really really normal for a baby to wake up and night and need their grown up to help them go back to sleep. I know it’s hard.
Have you tried co-sleeping safely? It makes such a huge difference to how much sleep you will get whilst also being there for your baby when they need you.
Please don’t leave them to cry it out!

@Babymeanswashing

I think I’m just not going to hang round here, that’s so not accurate at all and as I said in my OP I haven’t even done it. But there are too many people like this on MN and they never get dealt with.

So you want To come on AIBU for such a contentious topic and have everyone fawn over you and tell you you can do whatever you want?

People with different opinions to you do not need dealing with.

2bf OP when someone has suggested night weaning you said 'it's a lot of effort

Gentle sleep training requires patience and consistency. It isn't going to happen overnight

I know she's very divisive on here but I would have a read of Gina Ford - not the whole thing just the sleep routines for a 9 month old - the reason I recommend this is I can't remember what the ideal nap times are for this age but my babies all to the minute fell into the nap and bedtimes of gf and I do think they work well - eg with very young babies that teatime nap is a godsend to stop them getting over tired also check what gf says for food at this age
I did controlled crying with all mine abs though it's tough it worked in three nights with my Velcro babies - I think 9 months is a great age to try it if no other issues ...I know it can be harder if they're older
Good sleep often had to be learnt and is so vital for healthy development .
For those saying would you leave an older child or adult crying etc ...if my older kids were beside themselves , clearly tired and I'd ruled out illness or pain I would put them in bed, close the curtains give them a drink and a cuddle and tell them to get to sleep and yes they might still cry but I know want they need is sleep and I'd leave them to get to sleep without interruptions from me .