To think that women are being encouraged to expect too much from birth?

Crowsaregreat · 10/08/2021 18:24

Uh, on the one hand, it's quite easy to make money from people by saying you can make birth easier or better. On the other, it is better if women make informed choices about birth and don't just leave it all to the doctor's, because that what made women give birth on their backs in stirrups, post enema and pube shaving.

Personally I think there should be way more focus on skills that will help you through the first few months, birth is made to be a big be all and end all, but then you're slammed straight into the thick of it!

LaBellina · 10/08/2021 18:24

It’s often other women who put pressure on you - talking from experience here. One of my friends tried to tell me that my plan to have an epidural was harmful to the baby and I didn’t need it. She also insisted that I should enjoy my first weeks with the baby and if I didn’t, the baby would certainly feel this and it would be harmful.

Needless to say that she isn’t such a close friend anymore. I hate to say this but many women treat the whole birthing proces as some sort of competition and put pressure on each other.

EvilEdna1 · 10/08/2021 18:27

I think it's more of an issue that NHS maternity services are so awful that so few women have good birth experiences and so many women come out the other side traumatized. I think criticism is best levelled at there to be honest.

Dustyboots · 10/08/2021 18:28

I agree OP.

My first child was born with a disability that was caused by lack of oxygen at birth. I know it was due to me wanting a painless birth. It was all about me. I had a water birth.

During the NCT lessons/groups we were 'taught' about ideal births. Nothing was ever said about the baby being born safely and healthy.

I feel very angry about this.

takealettermsjones · 10/08/2021 18:29

Yeah I understand this. I had an epidural and had a few people, all mothers, look visibly surprised because they hadn't needed one and had just used gas and air. And two of them said the exact same sentence to me: "well that doesn't matter, you still birthed a baby." As though that might have been in doubt Certainly made me feel like crap in my drugged up, hormonal state!

modgepodge · 10/08/2021 18:31

I do agree to some extent OP. To me labour was a necessity to get to the bit I wanted, having a child. I went in with no expectations or fixed plan, expecting it to be painful and difficult, and if it wasn’t, bonus. I had a bloody awful birth. Other people in my NCT group who had wanted a water birth, soft lighting and music or had done a hypno birthing course and subsequently had an awful birth (which almost all of us did!) seemed a lot more upset that it hadn’t gone to plan or how they wanted it. It’s like, they had higher expectations so had more to be disappointed about.

EvilEdna1 · 10/08/2021 18:32

There should also be an acknowledgement that a decent birth experience where women feel listened to and are permitted to make genuinely informed decisions is more likely to set her and her partner up for a better early parenting experience. Birth should not be an awful hurdle to passively endure no matter what. How we expect women to endure a traumatic birth and postnatal ward experience and come out of the other side physically and mentally ready for the newborn stage?

PJday41 · 10/08/2021 18:33

I agree, it is women putting pressure on themselves. On here today a women wanted to read positive birth stories only. She did not want to read the truth that a large number of women experience when giving birth.

I had a traumatic birth with my first child and an emergency c section. I had a planned section with my second and still had a crap time at the end of it TBH. I'm honest with people who ask for my story. There are people who want to judge me for having c sections and they're entitled to their opinion. I know my eldest child would have died without it.

I don't think it's coincidence that there seems to be a push towards natural births with less intervention at a time that there are being huge cuts made to the NHS.

Polkadots2021 · 10/08/2021 18:35

@Parsley1789

Something I’ve thought about for a while. On Mumsnet today came across three threads in which the poster clearly feels very upset and disappointed with their birth experience and feels that they have failed. One poster refers to how her friends had ‘textbook births’ - the underlying belief clearly being that there is a ‘right’ way to give birth and that she didn’t ‘achieve’ it. I am not blaming these women at all, I feel very sad for them. Early motherhood is hard enough without feeling that on top of that you are a failure for not having a water hypnobirth. I asked my mum about this the other day, she had two c-sections in the ‘80s, and she said that it never occurred to her to feel remotely guilty about it.

I’m not saying we should go back to women having no say or power over how they give birth, but I feel that Instagram/NCT/hypnobirthing etc all paint this idea that birth can be this wonderful empowering event when for a lot of people it’s just bloody painful and hard work and thank goodness for medical advancements.

For context, I did not have an easy birth with my first and found breastfeeding a struggle. I have so many friends who have felt like failures after birth, and it saddens me to see it on MN too. AIBU?

I do agree as I wanted a drug free hypnobirth, maybe water birth with my first, but ended up with an epidural and a c section

I've always been beside myself with happiness as without a c section my little one might not have made it. I'm so grateful. It was perfect.

Not judging others who feel different, though.

lavenderandwisteria · 10/08/2021 18:35

While I don’t wish to denigrate the point you’re making @Parsley1789, as I do think you have a valid argument, I do think the assumption that we are silly women who are just listening to the NCT is a harmful one.

I wanted to breastfeed. It had nothing to do with pressure anyone put on me. (Literally all the pressure I had feeding wise was to formula feed.) I shouldn’t have to justify that.

I know that still feels very raw for me so I can imagine i would feel the same with birth. As it is I had a horrible birth but then I always knew it would be!

CoalCraft · 10/08/2021 18:35

This is why I refused to have a birth plan beyond "would prefer vaginal over CS, all else being equal".

Can't be disappointed by plans going awry if there's no strict plan.

Confiscatedpopit · 10/08/2021 18:37

Can I be honest? It seems to me to be more affluent/middle class women who get fixated on the ideal birth/breastfeeding etc. There is a lot to be said for just going in there, keeping an open mind and just seeing what happens. In my opinion the NCT have a lot to answer for- why talk endlessly about an experience you can’t really predict? To me it’s like planning a trip to the endless degree and being disappointed when something inevitably doesn’t go right. The focus should just be healthy birth for both.

lannistunut · 10/08/2021 18:39

I think there is a lot to be said for NCT/hypnoborthing etc., but they perhaps need to be understood as improving your chances rather than a guarantee.

On here today a women wanted to read positive birth stories only. She did not want to read the truth that a large number of women experience when giving birth. This is a real issue - too often now people want to only hear good news. Not a wise approach, better to try to deal with reality.

Nurseynoodles · 10/08/2021 18:39

I was so woefully unprepared for childbirth. I went to NCT and council run antenatal classes and while things like birth injuries were made mention of I had no idea that figures were so high and of course I felt that if I kept fit and healthy and didn’t gain too much weight I’d be ok. I wasn’t.

Same with breastfeeding, I wasn’t prepared for it to be tricky, even though a very high percentage find it to be so and many stop. It was presented as a natural wonderful thing and NCT didn’t even mention women might struggle.

Why don’t we tell women how hard childbirth and breastfeeding is? It’s like we think it will put them off. Or they have to do it anyway so why worry them unnecessarily? Personally, I think I’d have been able to accept my “failings” much more easily if they hadn’t been presented as exceptions to the norm in the first place. Tears are normal and very common, C sections are normal and very common. Establishing breastfeeding is usually tough but it gets better.

EvilEdna1 · 10/08/2021 18:39

It is really odd to me that there is blame being placed on antenatal education providers (of which NCT is just one of many) and women themselves for crap birth experiences.

Confiscatedpopit · 10/08/2021 18:40

DustyBoots- please may I just say- as an outsider who will never meet you, to please stop thinking that. It really was not your fault.

234Pepperplant · 10/08/2021 18:40

I think you have to be a bit naive to be sucked into believing that birth is going to be a happy/empowering experience for everyone or that you have much control over what happens. I had zero expectations of it being magical, empowering or anything else, which since I had two planned Caesarean sections was probably for the best. The sections were fine, the babies were healthy, I recovered ok and now I don’t really think much about it. I certainly don’t and didn’t think I’d failed. It was simply a means to an end, a necessary thing to have a baby. (And without a caesarean and the ultrasound that proceeded it my first child would be dead and I’d probably have been at minimum seriously ill too so being disappointed I didn’t get some idealised perfect birth would seem ridiculous.)

Where I do get angry is women let down by the NHS and who come away with avoidable damage, trauma or worse due to poor care or understaffing. I can’t feel too sad if someone just feels “disappointed with their experience”.

lavenderandwisteria · 10/08/2021 18:40

Yep, it’s silly middle class women expecting too much, as always.

Bagelsandbrie · 10/08/2021 18:41

I agree with you.

I had a horrific first birth- 67 hours long, induced, failed epidural, ending in ventouse. Didn’t bond with my dd for the first year as a result and had horrendous suicidal pnd and ptsd. Took me 2 years to recover with heavy medication and counselling. That was 18 years ago now and thankfully dd and I have a wonderful relationship now and I also have a 9 year old son that I had a wonderful elective c section with.

I think as women we put so much pressure on ourselves in all aspects of our lives and this is just another stick to beat ourselves with.

lannistunut · 10/08/2021 18:42

@CoalCraft

This is why I refused to have a birth plan beyond "would prefer vaginal over CS, all else being equal".

Can't be disappointed by plans going awry if there's no strict plan.

Yes agree about a vague birth plan, it is about general approach to pain relief etc., not which scented candles you have etc.

sar302 · 10/08/2021 18:43

It's an entire circus designed to dress up the gruelling realities of pushing something the diameter of a small dinner plate out of your vagina, and I think it's appalling.

What women actually need is properly funded pre and post natal and delivery care, realistic information about and treatment for birth injuries, and to have some say over their birthing experience.

Confiscatedpopit · 10/08/2021 18:43

Not sure the ‘reality’ stories are needed in my opinion. I remember being told a story of a woman who needed 300 stitches (or something equally ridiculous). What good is that going to do anyone? It’s akin to being told that Year 7 will get their heads flushed down the loo and you take public naked showers after PE before your first day at secondary school. (Was that just the rumours we heard?!)

LittleBearPad · 10/08/2021 18:44

Yanbu OP. There’s a load of crap heaped on mothers to be about birth

HavelockVetinari · 10/08/2021 18:46

@Nurseynoodles

I was so woefully unprepared for childbirth. I went to NCT and council run antenatal classes and while things like birth injuries were made mention of I had no idea that figures were so high and of course I felt that if I kept fit and healthy and didn’t gain too much weight I’d be ok. I wasn’t.

Same with breastfeeding, I wasn’t prepared for it to be tricky, even though a very high percentage find it to be so and many stop. It was presented as a natural wonderful thing and NCT didn’t even mention women might struggle.

Why don’t we tell women how hard childbirth and breastfeeding is? It’s like we think it will put them off. Or they have to do it anyway so why worry them unnecessarily? Personally, I think I’d have been able to accept my “failings” much more easily if they hadn’t been presented as exceptions to the norm in the first place. Tears are normal and very common, C sections are normal and very common. Establishing breastfeeding is usually tough but it gets better.

I agree with this.

However, I think part of the difficulty lies in that, if women are looking for childbirth info, they're already pregnant. We don't want to scare the living daylights out of them!

I was on MN for years before finally getting my BFP that stuck, so I got to read all the honest childbirth threads. They prepared me in a way that nothing else could've, and I'm so grateful to the many women on here who shared their experiences. I put on my birth plan that I'd like a vaginal birth if possible, to have a bath if one's free during labour, but mainly I wanted the baby and me to be alive and healthy so was open to anything. In the end I had an EMCS under GA, but I wasn't traumatised because I had no pre-set expectations that it would go according to any plan.

lannistunut · 10/08/2021 18:46

What women actually need is properly funded pre and post natal and delivery care, realistic information about and treatment for birth injuries, and to have some say over their birthing experience.
Can't believe this feels too much to expect