To think that women are being encouraged to expect too much from birth?

[Parsley1789]

Something I’ve thought about for a while. On Mumsnet today came across three threads in which the poster clearly feels very upset and disappointed with their birth experience and feels that they have failed. One poster refers to how her friends had ‘textbook births’ - the underlying belief clearly being that there is a ‘right’ way to give birth and that she didn’t ‘achieve’ it.
I am not blaming these women at all, I feel very sad for them. Early motherhood is hard enough without feeling that on top of that you are a failure for not having a water hypnobirth. I asked my mum about this the other day, she had two c-sections in the ‘80s, and she said that it never occurred to her to feel remotely guilty about it.

I’m not saying we should go back to women having no say or power over how they give birth, but I feel that Instagram/NCT/hypnobirthing etc all paint this idea that birth can be this wonderful empowering event when for a lot of people it’s just bloody painful and hard work and thank goodness for medical advancements.

For context, I did not have an easy birth with my first and found breastfeeding a struggle. I have so many friends who have felt like failures after birth, and it saddens me to see it on MN too. AIBU?

9 babies and not once have I made a birth plan, only thing I’ve ever said is I’m not keen on an epidural as don’t like the thought of a needle in my back! My only goal has been to have baby born safely and well. 5 of mine were prem (late prem 35-36 weeks) so birth before 37 weeks is much more medical and you don’t really get much say in what you want done which was fine by me.
Birth is so unpredictable you really can’t plan for it, and women shouldn’t be made to feel something totally out of their control should be perfect or they’ve failed.

I think midwives should have more input in a "birth plan". I don't know anybody who was able to actually do what was planned, so perhaps women should be told explicitly that plans often cannot be adhered to for medical reasons and that it's normal.

My birth experiences were all a long time ago, and there were no ‘choices’ to be made. Having said that, I think it’s pretty impossible for anyone expecting their first baby to know what to expect. If they are relying on advice from friends about how their births went, it must be difficult if their experience doesn’t measure up in the same way. Many of us may have wished things had gone better, but are grateful if the end result is a healthy baby and not too much trauma for oneself.

I was once told by a first time mum-to-be that she was determined to have an entirely natural birth, no drugs whatsoever etc etc.
It was hard to say anything other than ‘keep on open mind, and just see how it goes’, when you know that the person in question rushes to the medicine cupboard at the slightest indication of a headache or a sore foot.

I would never ever be critical of someone requesting whatever pain relief they want. Believe me, if an epidural had been available when I had mine, I would definitely have asked for it.

I think there is enough pressure on women to be strong and to ‘succeed’ with a beautiful birth experience, instead of accepting that labour can be exhausting and painful, and whatever you need to get through it is a success.

When I became pregnant with my first DC I mentally planned a lovely calm water birth; I knew that didn’t always work out but I had no idea if the actual statistics and I was the first of my friends to have a baby so I hadn’t really heard people’s birth stories apart from perhaps the odd older woman telling me a “funny” birth story like nearly giving birth in a car which probably wasn’t overly funny when it originally happened.
I ended up with the first section under GA as no time to numb me and a second elective one with PTSD from the first added into the mix. I quickly learnt that not many people have the birth experience they hoped for. I actually think tv and films have a lot to answer for but also we forget the trauma of it after a few years and tell it differently. Even my mums traumatic births were told with rose tinted glasses and once having a baby I realised how traumatic they were

Women are under pressure to behave "correctly" every moment after the first moment they become self aware.

Look this way.
Talk gently.
Be nice.
Be polite, even to perverts and bullies.
Don't eat this or that, you'll get fat.
Apologise constantly.
Don't stand up for yourself.
Don't trust your own instincts, you are mistaken/hysterical.
Do as you're told.

The list goes on for absolutely fucking ever and only gets even more lengthy once a child is involved.

Why would birth be any different.

Everything I read about c-sections was lumping emergency, medically required and elective together. Yet when they are disaggregated it the canadian medical association found it may actually be slightly better in terms of outcomes for women and babies.

www.ctvnews.ca/health/study-co-author-says-planned-c-sections-may-be-less-risky-for-some-moms-and-babies-1.5411462

All i got were vague “ooooh c-section bad” from people.

I think in the UK theres a lot of moralising about how women have children. I had my DC abroad and there was none of that. I was given a range of options and obstetrician talked me through them and no-one in a medical setting made me feel inadequate for having an elective c-section. We don’t have enough actual information (I’m talking studies from various sources) to weigh up options and to have realistic expectations.

However from family I heard a lot of talk about NCT classes in the UK pushing women into thinking that non-medicalised births are best when the reality is birth injuries in the UK are high and unnecessarily traumatic births are common. But its ok, it’s just happening to women so who cares. We basically treat women being permanently injured by birth as fine as long as she doesn’t have an epidural (gasp). A relative told me NCT put the frighterners on her about how horrific an epidural was and it was nothing like that when she ended up having one after labouring forever.

Having experienced healthcare elsewhere I really do think theres a really horrible strain of misogyny in the NHS. Women are often expected to get up and start looking after a baby immediately after birth with little to no help. A woman I know who had a c-section was left on a mat covered in her own blood and told to find her own way to the shower.

This is obviously not everyones experience but of the women in my family (7 births) only one was good and thats because a c-section was performed early for medical reasons and she was in a high risk unit. None of those women were expecting it to be lovely but they were often treated badly by midwives, pain was dismissed as being their weakness, postnatal care was awful. making it out like its womens fault is bullshit. Women used to die giving birth at much higher rates than they do now. It is still something we do and for women to feel bad or a failure is not ok.

A very experienced midwife who was close to retirement told me the best birth plan was no plan at all. My sister warned me that birth hurts like nothing else you have experienced as does breastfeeding until about four weeks in.
I ended up with an elective c section, which hurts like hell in a different way and DSis advice on breastfeeding was spot on.
I wasn’t traumatised by either experience because I was prepared for it being tough.
I am currently waiting for biopsy results from a suspicious breast lump. Now that’s a whole different level of trauma!

@CoalCraft

This is why I refused to have a birth plan beyond "would prefer vaginal over CS, all else being equal".

Can't be disappointed by plans going awry if there's no strict plan.

I didn't have a birth plan for either of my two births, though the second one I did say when I got to the hospital that I'd like to use the pool. I was still left upset and bewildered after my first birth because even though the birth itself was very straightforward I was treated so badly by the midwives, who refused to believe I was in labour and so left me labouring publicly and painfully on a triage ward despite me repeatedly saying I was pushing. It made the whole thing a really difficult, humiliating experience that stayed with me for quite a while, and caused me some anxiety in the lead up to my second birth. I wasn't disappointed that I didn't have a water birth to whale song or anything like that, I didn't go in with those expectations (though having had a water birth with my second it was much nicer and I'm not quite sure why women are mocked for wanting one), I just expected to be treated with some kindness - or, indeed, be treated at all, and not ignored and belittled by HCPs. Unfortunately even that was enough to set me up for disappointment.

There is quite an industry around natural birth, and think it does sometimes set women up to feel they have failed if things are not exactly according to the book, which is a real shame.

I had a good NCT experience but it does depend on the tutor. Ours prepared us for all kinds of birth scenarios including C section, and emphasized the safety of the baby as well as the mother. I do agree with previous posters who have said there should be more tuition about the point where you take the baby home!

I don't understand why some women have such rigid ideas. My friend said no C-section so ended up with a horrendous forceps delivery. I mean why would anyone thin that preferential to a C-section. I know so many women who have had horrendous births with forceps. When in labour with my first when they wheeled in the forceps trolley I burst into tears and that was enough for them to offer me a c-section thank god.

@Angrymum22

A very experienced midwife who was close to retirement told me the best birth plan was no plan at all. My sister warned me that birth hurts like nothing else you have experienced as does breastfeeding until about four weeks in. I ended up with an elective c section, which hurts like hell in a different way and DSis advice on breastfeeding was spot on. I wasn’t traumatised by either experience because I was prepared for it being tough. I am currently waiting for biopsy results from a suspicious breast lump. Now that’s a whole different level of trauma!

I'm really sorry that you're going through that currently, and really hope you get the all clear as soon as possible. This isn't to underplay that in any way but I underwent surgery under general anaesthetic to remove a suspicious lump (after an inconclusive biopsy) 8 months after I gave birth for the first time and the treatment I got from HCPs was so much better, the aftercare and concern for pain management so much better, that it really brought home to me how bad - and how unnecessarily bad - my care during birth had been.

I would say the biggest problem is often thela k of compassionate care during labour and the lack of midwives listening g to mums. This is based purely on my experience but I knew it wouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows I did expect midwives to take my seriously and listen to me when I said I am in labour and feeling the need to push.

[quote HumunaHey]@dustyboots Feel free to ignore if you mind me asking but, if not, what makes you think your choice and your DC's lack of oxygen was due to your birth choice?[/quote]
Was going to say the same thing. Oxygen depletion happens, but I'm not sure it's to do with a water birth, which generally go smoothly.

Apologies if it was, I don't mean to be ignorant.

@MarleneDietrichsSmile

The whole concept of a “birth plan” gives women the illusion that it’s an event they can control

When really, you can’t control much about it

I came to say this. I don’t bother. I didn’t have a plan for my appendectomy. Mine went wrong, no ones fault. A succession of more and more senior consultants came to see me and I went with their lead. It went okay in the end. I lost a lot of blood because I bled a lot. My obstetrician came to see me the next day to check I understand what went wrong (nature!) and that I was happy. And I was. It wasn’t textbook but I felt looked after, I felt heard and trusted my obstetrician knew what she was doing and wanted the best for me.

@modgepodge

I do agree to some extent OP. To me labour was a necessity to get to the bit I wanted, having a child. I went in with no expectations or fixed plan, expecting it to be painful and difficult, and if it wasn’t, bonus. I had a bloody awful birth. Other people in my NCT group who had wanted a water birth, soft lighting and music or had done a hypno birthing course and subsequently had an awful birth (which almost all of us did!) seemed a lot more upset that it hadn’t gone to plan or how they wanted it. It’s like, they had higher expectations so had more to be disappointed about.

^ Spot on!

I had two very straightforward births, both in a midwife led birthing unit, short labours, no complications and minimal stitches.

Bit of gas and air offered for crowning and that was it. I got praised by the midwife with the second for how calm and serene I had been and told 'you could give some of my hypnobirthing ladies a run for their money'.

It was still not some magical momentous event though. It just highlighted how shockingly bad both ante and post natal care are and maternity services in general.

Despite being the ONLY woman on both occasions who needed to use the birthing centre at that time they tried to send me away both times. Both times I had the baby within 2 hours of them trying to get me to go home - which was an hours drive away the first time and 30 mins the second time. The second time I was told by the community midwives to ensure the MLU knew that I had dilated from 3cm to 10cm in an hour with DC1 and not to send me home when I turned up. O

The second time they were much more forceful despite my insistence that I had laboured quickly with DC1, and wouldn't let us stay due to a shift change and poor DH had to drive me the 30 minute drive back home, for MIL (who was looking after DC1) to turn us immediately back round. Walked back through the door at the MLU after an hours round trip to rolled eyes, a rough examination and then mild panic as they realised they could see the babies head.

Both times despite being the ONLY woman on the unit I requested to get in the birthing pool to labour. Both times I was fobbed off until it was too late (I'd asked to stay and Labour in it with DC2) There's pictures of a half full birthing pool still running in most of the pictures of DC1s birth.

Both times I told them I felt I was ready for some gas and air only to be scolded and told if I had it now it wouldn't be effective when 'I really needed it' both times the baby was born less than 30 mins later.

Both times I asked to give birth on all fours. Both times I was looked at like I had two heads.

Two different units, two different staff teams, virtually identical experiences.

Two completely uneventful births with a very calm and laid back labouring mother and I was still made to feel like crap and like I was an inconvenience.

The one highlight was a very experienced midwife sticking a Dihydrocodeine suppository up my bum with very little warning - that stuff did give me a bit of a high, but that was about it .

To add

Strange how many if the 'bad' birth experiences have one thing in common. Lack of compassionate care and a lack of listening. Things which are also shown to have amajor impact on PND. There are many studies showing that if woman are treated poorly during labour they are more likely to develop PND

I had a very simple birth plan.

Yes to vit k injection
Yes to managed third stage
My husband to tell me the sex of the baby.

They were the only 3 things I had any control over.

I always dreamed of giving birth 'naturally'. I watched One Born Every Minute obsessively and was in jealous awe of my friends and family members who did it. It felt like a way to prove myself somehow. When I was struggling to conceive, it was almost the opportunity to experience labour and birth that I grieved more than motherhood itself. I did end up getting pregnant, but for various reasons ended up having an unplanned C Section. And you know what? It was bloody brilliant. I'm still a woman, still a mother, and my birth experience was as valid and beautiful as any other. And my vagina is intact 😂

Yea I agree. I felt like I had 'failed' at birth because I had to be induced and had pethidine, rather than the 'natural' water birth I wanted. I beat myself up about it for a long time.

Now I realise that it doesn't matter; I had to be induced because of risk of cord prolapse. I bought a baby into this world, that's all that should really matter. I definitely think a certain type of birth is fetishized in this country and its not helpful.

And my vagina is intact 😂

I really wish people wouldn't make this kind of comment, especially on a thread where people are sharing their very personal birth traumas. It's so juvenile and also pretty misogynistic.

Far too many unnecessary inductions and interventions that cause poor outcomes for mum and/or baby. Birth has become so medicalised when really women in the majority are equipped to birth the babies they grow.

Highly recommend people check out @kemibirthjoyjohnson on IG. She is a qualified midwife who is really disappointed with the current maternity system and lack of support and care provided to birthing mothers.

@Hardbackwriter

Was going to make the same comment. The at ‘at least I haven’t ruined my vagina’ comment is deeply offensive. Making yourself feel better by making others feel bad is never a good idea.

@Hardbackwriter @Nurseynoodles you're absolutely right, I apologise and take it back.