To think that women are being encouraged to expect too much from birth?

[Parsley1789]

Something I’ve thought about for a while. On Mumsnet today came across three threads in which the poster clearly feels very upset and disappointed with their birth experience and feels that they have failed. One poster refers to how her friends had ‘textbook births’ - the underlying belief clearly being that there is a ‘right’ way to give birth and that she didn’t ‘achieve’ it.
I am not blaming these women at all, I feel very sad for them. Early motherhood is hard enough without feeling that on top of that you are a failure for not having a water hypnobirth. I asked my mum about this the other day, she had two c-sections in the ‘80s, and she said that it never occurred to her to feel remotely guilty about it.

I’m not saying we should go back to women having no say or power over how they give birth, but I feel that Instagram/NCT/hypnobirthing etc all paint this idea that birth can be this wonderful empowering event when for a lot of people it’s just bloody painful and hard work and thank goodness for medical advancements.

For context, I did not have an easy birth with my first and found breastfeeding a struggle. I have so many friends who have felt like failures after birth, and it saddens me to see it on MN too. AIBU?

TL;DR: by all means share 'positive' birth experiences. But acknowledge the massive role played by luck. Don't pretend that you had a specific birth because you tried hard enough and planned and prepared in the right way.

@BlueLobelia

I had a birth plan for DS1 and when I got to the maternity unit I told my MW that i had it. She rolled her eyes and said that birth plans were just something 'they' make you do to keep your mind occupied. It was never looked at. Did not even bother with DS2.

That's appalling midwifery. She shouldn't be doing it.

@Eeeb

I think the pain level is underplayed, as is the helplessness, and there seems to be this bravado about making women go through unnecessary pain. If a person wants to labour without pain relief, then I respect their choice, but so many women who don't want to are pressured or coerced through lack of choice.

For example, I have endometriosis, so am familiar with severe pelvic pain. The midwife at the prenatal appointments tried to guilt me into not having an epidural. I made clear that I understood the pain level, and she backed off. I put on my birth plan that I'd like an epidural. They held off giving me one for hours just in case I might be able to do it without (spoiler alert: I passed out and took 2 infusions of epidural to come back).

Healthcare staff would never dream of making a person undergoing a major surgery do it without sedation, so why is it okay to do to labouring women, who need to somehow have the energy post-birth to feed and care for a newborn?

Yeah. The number of times I told a midwife I was in absolute excruciating pain, the worst I’d ever experienced, in absolute desperation, and was met with ‘I know love, it’s a bit uncomfortable isn’t it?’

It was actually terrifying. Before that experience I always thought if I was in a hospital surrounded by medics that if I needed help they’d help me. I learned differently and it shattered a lot of my sense of security and what I thought I knew about the world. It was like I was speaking English and they could only understand Russian or something. Total mind fuck.

I had 2 vaginal births that were both horrific and left me traumatised and with long term complications from (I was badly stitched both times). Then I went onto have 2 C sections, 1st emergency and 2nd elective. I then went on to have serious complications with surgical adhesions, further surgeries and have had 20 + years of pain on and off. C sections aren't for the faint hearted either. I find the glib "oh get a section, it's so easy" comments on MN very hard to stomach tbh.

Giving birth is literally taking two lives in your hands and hoping for the best. And we should be more honest about it.

@BrilloPaddy

I had 2 vaginal births that were both horrific and left me traumatised and with long term complications from (I was badly stitched both times). Then I went onto have 2 C sections, 1st emergency and 2nd elective. I then went on to have serious complications with surgical adhesions, further surgeries and have had 20 + years of pain on and off. C sections aren't for the faint hearted either. I find the glib "oh get a section, it's so easy" comments on MN very hard to stomach tbh.

Giving birth is literally taking two lives in your hands and hoping for the best. And we should be more honest about it.

Do people really say that about c sections? I'm so sorry if they do.

Personally I've noticed the opposite, both on MN and elsewhere, people saying that c sections are absolutely horrific to recover from so you should always opt for a vaginal birth as the recovery is much easier and you bounce back better. Which really bothers me tbh, as for many women a vaginal birth can take a long time and lots of pain to recover from, can leave permanent injuries, and zero bouncing back happens!

I genuinely don't think there's an 'easy' or 'easier' way to birth, so much of it is luck and whether it goes well or there are complications. But I do feel personally like it was a massive shock when my recovery was so difficult and took so long, hurt so much, and left such permanent problems, when all I'd seen everywhere was how much better a vaginal birth was to recover from.

I had similar experience to you @Anchoredowninanchorage
Did a lot of reading- Ina May, Milli Hill, Naomi Wolf and NICE guidelines stuff, attended NCT classes that looked at all types of birth and I made a birth preferences sheet for all scenarios e.g my ideal birth, induction, EMCS. I also did a hypnobirthing audio book which did wonders for my anxiety.
I am quite shocked by some comments on this thread which seem to imply women wanting to make choices where they can about their birth experience are selfish or woo or not putting baby first and only thing that matters is a healthy baby. I don't think that's the ONLY thing that matters- I think it's really important women aren't left with physical or psychological damage after birth and unfortunately this is all too common.
I also went into birth prepared for the worst and hoping for the best, knowing what complications may or could come up and happen but feeling empowered that I and my partner had the info and knowledge to give informed consent to any recommended interventions etc. I don't think doing NCT or hypnobirthing is 'woo' or 'fuckery' as others have said here. Horses for courses at end of the day.
I also think it's disgusting when women make derogatory comments towards other women about the type of birth they had- all birth is hard whatever way you've birthed and it isn't or shouldn't be a competition or battle between different birth methods. I think there is a lot about our maternity system which unfortunately is not conducive to supporting women to have more straightforward births e.g. pressure to undergo inductions, inducing women on wards with 5 or 7 other women where there is no privacy or escape from the sounds of others labouring etc., forcing women to jump through tons of hoops before agreeing to an elective CS- it all contributes to making a woman's pregnancy/birth experience that little bit less positive.

Do people really say that about c sections? I'm so sorry if they do.

Personally I've noticed the opposite, both on MN and elsewhere, people saying that c sections are absolutely horrific to recover from so you should always opt for a vaginal birth as the recovery is much easier and you bounce back better. Which really bothers me tbh, as for many women a vaginal birth can take a long time and lots of pain to recover from, can leave permanent injuries, and zero bouncing back happens!

I've seen both. I think that's the really shit thing about the competitive birth thing, it's like the breast vs. formula battle (equally pointless) - both sides imagine that the other is getting all the praise and approval and feel hard done that they aren't, whereas in face everyone feels criticised. I've seen women on MN be very smug about choosing elective caesareans and epidurals and talk about how silly and brainwashed women who want vaginal births with minimal pain relief are ('you don't get a medal, you know'). I've also seen the holding up of vaginal with minimal pain relief as the ideal (less often on MN, tbh - that seems a much more Instagram thing).

The problem with MN as well is that different threads attract different posters - when people post saying they're scared of either a vaginal or a caesarean birth people will fill the thread with positive stories about beautiful experiences and being able to cook roast dinners and play tennis the next day. If the OP has themselves had a bad experience then people post about their own bad experiences, whether it's of vaginal or caesarean births. Any thread where the OP is weighing up which to have attracts evangelists on both sides.

Monday 26July: saw someone the other day tell a group of women that birth is no different to taking a shit, it's a natural bodily process
........
That made me laugh.

Of course it is much more than opening bowels. However I used to be very constipated, for nearly all my life, and when it came to giving birth I felt as though I had been doing it for years! So there is a grain of truth in it.

I also belong to the birth trauma association group on FB with tens of thousands of women on it, all with a degree of trauma from giving birth.
Ime reading their stories, there is really a very small number (if any) that feel their trauma came from being fixated on the ‘perfect’ birth or having a rigid ‘whale music and fairy lights’ plan. Most of the stories involve poor and disrespectful care, an unnecessary lack of consent and dignity.

One woman whose story stuck out to me had actually had 2 very similar on paper elective c-sections. The first had been extremely positive for her, however the 2nd at a different hospital had left her with a degree of trauma- the care was poor, the same measures for dignity and privacy that she’d experienced before didn’t happen, staff were rude and disrespectful, things weren’t explained and consent wasn’t sought properly. She felt like a piece of meat through the process.

So again whilst I strongly believe in women having proper information before childbirth, I’m not convinced on the angle that a lot of birth trauma is down to women being fixated on ‘Instagram-worthy’ births.

I think one of the things that needs to happen is honesty about facilities as well.

My local hospital heavily heavily promotes their lovely water births that they offer. It’s a lovely beautiful suite, but they don’t actually mention that they have one. And they have such a lack of cleaning staff that it’s often used for a birth and then out of use until the next day because it can’t be cleaned properly…

The vast majority of women give birth in tiny rooms, several without windows, and often without access to epidural because there’s a shortage of anaesthetists in the hospital.

They also bang on about how important continuity of care is yet you don’t see the same person twice.

Yet the smaller hospital in the next town gets comments because their facilities are a bit less shiny, but they have a better staffing ratio, strong push continuity of care and are very honest about what they can and can’t offer. They’re a much better option imo.

So much of birth is just random depending on your body and baby on the day and it's horrible that we try and tell women that if they do everything right they'll have a certain birth.

Couldn't agree more with this. And I do believe all practitioners should be really clear about this from the off. I also experienced a post-trauma mental struggle and I do believe if I had expected less, known more about how difficult and painful breastfeeding would be and more about the impact of severe sleep deprivation (with a v disgruntled baby) I'd have coped better. Instead I had countless cards and messages to look at saying 'enjoy the baby love bubble'.