‘We didn’t bring you up to have a cleaner’

[Itsthendoftheworldasweknowit]

What does this mean?

I have two amazing cleaning ladies who come for 4 hours every fortnight. They do what I call ‘The big clean’ the whole house, dusting, bathroom, windows, kitchen, hoover, mop, oven, fridge etc. In between this time I do the loos, kitchen everyday and hoover & mop a couple of times (stone tile floors)
I HATE cleaning, I have a toddler and work part time, I cook lots and don’t mind it, but cleaning isn’t my thing.
I’d rather pay money for cleaners and forgo a new outfit or a meal out, that’s how much I dislike it 🤣it’s impossible to do it with Dd around, plus I’d rather spend time with her than breaking my back cleaning.
Today, my mum said ‘We didn’t bring you up to have a cleaner’ she then began to list how she’d do the bathrooms one day, the downstairs the next etc etc..fine, but I don’t want to spend every day cleaning. She also said how she had 3 kids, not 1 🙄
I said how I’d rather spend some money on cleaners so we can enjoy our weekends in the sun (live abroad) and relax, rather than buying myself loads of new clothes or getting my eyebrows done etc (things she and my sister spend a fair amount on)
AIBU to have cleaners?!

I'm quite offended on her behalf, that you assume that she's a woman with no choices and no agency over her life- because she's 'just a lowly cleaner' so how could she possibly be content?

@saraclara To an extent it's true- not everyone can be a high flyer earning millions from some skill. It's no one's dream career they imagined as a child. But we make the most of it and can live with it more than we can other jobs. And yes, some of us take pride in our work.

Don’t tell her?! It’s none of her business anyway ! If she disapproves so what …does she think it’s morally wrong having a cleaner?

[quote Helendee]@BoaCunstrictor

Not at all. Everyone should do the job they wish to do if possible. My point is nothing to do with the cleaners, my question was to ask how feminists felt about employing other women to do boring and menial work.[/quote]
Does it make you feel better or is it more feminist if they happen to be in a boring menial job on a factory line? Or in a call centre?

Just curious.

@AbstractEim Exactly, whatever works and whatever helps 💐 it’s another thing off the ticklist and actually makes me mentally feel so much better when they come, that’s worth it’s weight in gold

I would like to know how many middle class women work as cleaners.

@Helendee I started out life fairly middle class, but soon could only do work such as cleaning or care work due to a permanet mental health disability. So there you go.

When I employed my cleaner 16 years ago it was just her. She now runs her own company and employs a team and has done really well. It's not menial work, she's a successful business woman employing other women!

I have a 4 month old, a 8 year old and I work 48 hours a week - there’s absolutely no way I’m spending my days off cleaning

[quote Helendee]@BoaCunstrictor

Not at all. Everyone should do the job they wish to do if possible. My point is nothing to do with the cleaners, my question was to ask how feminists felt about employing other women to do boring and menial work.[/quote]
Mine is that your insistence on completely ignoring the men who use and work as cleaners (some of whom might even be feminist too!) is very telling. It's invariably a slant on the issue held by people who see cleaning as female work by default, and you've said nothing to dispel that.

clean up other people's muck

????
unless you live alone and there's nobody in your life to care for chances are you already have to clean up other people's muck.
it's starts with shitty nappies and never ends

my question was to ask how feminists felt about employing other women to do boring and menial work. That assumes so much, doesn't it?

That every woman is able to do more than 'boring menial' work. Or wants to.

So you are ignoring those who have intellectual challenges, making you abelist as well as classist. Remove repetitive boring work and the livelihoods of many people will simply disappear. Such work is all many want ro can cope with.

And I'll employ other women to do anything at all. I have a female decorator and a female electrician that I use whenever needed. A male plumber because the female that was recommended turned out to be clueless! Am I supposed not to do that because all of those jobs are menial, are, god forbid. trades!

Oh! I have a friend who is my IT bod - she's female too! Keeps my business online and viable. Oh! I am a woman in a trade too! Damn me!

And that's before you get to women fleeing abuse, with health issues, want to work around childcare etc etc

Or the inconvenient fact that many cleaners are male!

There isn't anything wrong with having a cleaner, especially since you can afford it. Having one child isn't a barrier to cleaning in my eyes though, like your mum said she managed with 3! You have different priorities to her and don't need to justify yourself to her anymore.

@BeautyGoesToBenidorm

I work as a cleaner alongside my main job, and I bloody HATE cleaning 😅 I'm absolutely fine cleaning for other people, but I'd love my own cleaner as I loathe housework.

YANBU OP!

I used to be a cleaner too and can relate. When I was cleaning for other people, I did the cleaning and was finished. Doing my own housework is never finished, you don't get the satisfaction of a job finished.

Firstly, she did bring you up to have a cleaner because… you have a cleaner.

Secondly, I think it’s a really nasty thing to say that you’ve rejected your upbringing and it’s a totally unwarranted comment. If you want a cleaner then have one and pay them a decent amount.

what does this mean

It means that you are now an adult, who gets to choose stuff for yourself. And, if you love her, you smile and nod when your mother tells you how she thinks things should be, because, let's face it, she used to be in charge of everything (feeding, changing nappies and your sleep regime) and now she has no.power.whatsoever.

Don't rub it in, just smile and nod and do exactly what you want. Enjoy.

@Helendee, why do you think cleaning is boring and menial work?

If you personally didn't enjoy it, fair enough. But why do you think other people feel the same about it? How do you know that others don't find it relaxing or therapeutic or something to take pride in?

I personally love cleaning. I have an unexpected few days off at the moment and am having a ball doing a deep cleaning and loving the results. Living. The. Life.

@Sceptre86 Nope, having one child isn’t a barrier to cleaning, but in my time off I play with my child, teach her, take her out, enjoy her and our lives together. I had a nice childhood, but don’t remember my mum doing much of that, I would’ve much preferred her to care less about scrubbing bathrooms and had fun with us. A clean house is lower down my list of priorities than many other things I value as more important

Yanbu. But isn’t that just one of those things mums (and dads) often say which we have to just let go over our heads. Just as there are things we and siblings say and do which have to be tolerated ? It was a stupid thing to say but absolutely not worth being angry or upset about. Is it one of those things you actually feel a bit sensitive about anyway so it touched a nerve ? (Not that it should be - no inherent problem with having cleaners ffs).

But through my enjoyment of cleaning and ability to devote a fair few hours each day to doing it this week, I am also depriving someone of a chance to make a living or increase their income.

It's hard to win if you're a woman, isn't it?

@Franklyfrost Yes, so does she mean I should be doing it as it wasn’t the thing to have a cleaner when I was young? Am I getting ideas above my station? Or does it mean I shouldn’t be so lazy as to not cheat my own house? I don’t get her angle

Not at all. Everyone should do the job they wish to do if possible. My point is nothing to do with the cleaners, my question was to ask how feminists felt about employing other women to do boring and menial work.

Do you eat in a restaurant? Buy food in a supermarket? Use goods that were assembled in a factory? Ring call centres with your service problems?

Plenty of menial and boring jobs out there with a lot less agency, and a lot less pay, than my cleaner. She gets to choose her own hours, music/podcasts/radio/phone calls while she works, we're flexible with each other in terms of holidays, sick kids, etc. We have a good chat when she's here if my work allows. She's pretty honest with me if things bug her, and vice versa.

So what's your real issue with cleaners versus all those other 'menial' jobs that women do for much less money and much less autonomy? Is there something here around your view of a woman's role in the home?

[quote Itsthendoftheworldasweknowit]@Franklyfrost Yes, so does she mean I should be doing it as it wasn’t the thing to have a cleaner when I was young? Am I getting ideas above my station? Or does it mean I shouldn’t be so lazy as to not cheat my own house? I don’t get her angle[/quote]
I'd guess ideas above your station. Common enough to see a woman who doesn't wish to clean as uppity.

I have a cleaner, gardener and dog Walker (I do most walks myself but she covers busy afternoons). I am happy with my choice. I have the money and very little time. I’d rather pay someone to do do things I don’t like to do so I can spend time with my kid.

I've not read the full thread but I was a cleaner once, still one of my favourite jobs & I've had loads, including professional roles.

My mum was making sniffy comments about my voluntary work. "It's more for wives of doctors, not us."

I squeaked "I am the wife of a doctor...". Not sure she even backed down then...

Inverse snobbery, you do you!

@Itsthendoftheworldasweknowit
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@Franklyfrost Yes, so does she mean I should be doing it as it wasn’t the thing to have a cleaner when I was young? Am I getting ideas above my station? Or does it mean I shouldn’t be so lazy as to not cheat my own house? I don’t get her angle*

Her angle is that you’re not doing exactly what she did (stayed at home cleaning with three kids) and rather than accepting that you’re a different person living in a different time she thinks you’re wrong. I suppose she’s threatened by change and thinks you’re implying what she did at your age was wrong. Would that fit her personality type?

I sometimes feel some guilt over having a cleaner because I worry that I might be taking advantage of someone, most likely a woman. Cleaning is hard work.

Then I remind myself that I pay well and cleaning is a low barrier to entry job. While it requires physical ability, the startup costs are relatively low and the cleaner can control the hours of availability.