To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

As a side note you can prebook a beach friendly wheel chair for free at many UK beaches. I was at one last week that was particularly wheelchair accessible as a few people were using one.

I actually did leave my newbie with s random man once as the loos opened straight out into the cafe and I was about to have an IBS attack (I.e. shit myself) I couldn't believe how stupid I had been afterwards (i was panicking and not thinking!) This thread has reminded me to order a radar key. Parents should not be faced with either putting their DCs in danger or shitting on the floor of Costa!

@eeyore228

I'm pretty shocked that so many think it's ok to use a disabled toilet. Obviously in a minority here but disability isn't an option/choice for those affected. There aren't nearly enough toilets dedicated to those with impairments. To expect someone to wait for a family to all use the toilet is really sad. It's admittedly a difficult situation for parents with pushchairs but it just comes across as so entitled.

I'm genuinely not being goady but what are you actually meant to do if you have a newborn in a pram and are out for the day? I've never seen a single person pee with their pram against an open door so don't think that's a reasonable suggestion. Yes parenthood is a choice but a pretty necessary one for society and I don't think it's unreasonable that parents want to leave their homes. By the time I've driven anywhere I need a wee. Fair enough if you have a baby/toddler who can stand up but what about a tiny baby? I am one of these awful people who uses an accessible loo and honestly, honestly in all the times I've done it only once has anyone been waiting outside. They couldn't have been waiting for longer than around 30 seconds. I'm super fast at weeing though. Are these toilets even planned as 'disabled toilets' when buildings are designed now? In my workplace there is an accessible toilet and that includes reasons beyond disabilities.

@LouNatics

But you do have a choice, you can choose to use a normal cubicle, shut the door and leave the baby outside for a minute, you can take the baby out of the pram and take them in the cubicle with you, you can ask someone else to watch the baby, you can ask someone else to watch the pram, you can choose not to use/take a pram with you. The same isn’t true of many people with disabilities. In many cases you are taking the only loo they are physically able to use, not the one that’s a bit less awkward.

None of those would have been suitable options for me.

Not a chance in hell would I ask a stranger or leave my baby out of my sight.

I couldn't go to the toilet and hold a baby and I couldn't wear a baby in a sling and use the toilet.

So yes faced with being alone with a buggy I'd use a disabled toilet.

Absolutely zero other option that wouldn't endanger my child

I have twins and there is no way I'd be able to go into the normal toilet cubicles with my double pram. I always have to use the disabled toilet but that's the way it is and i don't feel bad about it.
I think you're being very unreasonable to suggest using the toilet with the door open and the pram propped in front of the door, mothers are humans too believe it or not!

Whilst we're on the subject, maybe disabled users could stop using parent and child parking spaces?

I get your frustration OP but it’s not always black and white and not all people who appear to be blatantly taking advantage, are.
This.

Some mums using the disabled toilets are rude CFs (like the one you saw today), some are using the only option available.

Toilet was for people with a disability (hidden or otherwise) who needed the facility. It’s not to make life easier for parents, it’s for the use of people who otherwise couldn’t go to the attraction at all.

A family attraction not having child-friendly toilets is a disgrace. But that doesn’t mean parents should just use the disabled ones instead!

YABU if radar keys are introduced at the aquarium, women's options are

Piss with the door open and change a tampon/pad in front of strangers in order to keep her child in sight.
Leave her baby alone and out of sight if she needs privacy.

Bring baby in with her and wipe, change a tampon/pad etc one handed.

Or what will most likely happen is Mums will buy thier own radar key (I know many mums who did this as baby changes are often in accessible loos) or just ask a member of staff for a key and they will most likely be given it and they will hold the door for other mums coming in after them.

Also YABU to challenge people coming out of accessible loos, not all disabilities are visible.

"Whilst we're on the subject, maybe disabled users could stop using parent and child parking spaces?"

Maybe you need to learn about reasonable adjustment.

Incredible the sense of entitlement so many people have to just take over the disabled loos. People with disabilities campaigned for years to get this provision. 10 years ago the majority opinion would have been that it's not ok to use them unless someone actually has a disability. Society really has gone to shit.

I think parents just using the disabled toilet gives the impression that the current set up is OK. If parents complained to attractions, shopping centres etc about the lack of family toilets, they may take notice.

I’m entitled to use the toilet privately regardless of whether I’m a mother or not!

But you’re not entitled to use the disabled loo unless you’re actually disabled.

@Worrysaboutalot YANBU. It seems as though some people were mistaking the disabled lavatory for a changing facility. That’s not on, and you shouldn’t have had to face such rudeness.

I think it’s an excellent idea to ask the aquarium to put a radar key on the disabled lavatory. It’s not as if you have any choice about which facility you can use.

I haven’t bothered to read the whole thread but I am guessing it’s full of the normal “it’s an accessible toilet for everyone to access” bullshit has been posted over and over again.

It should be simple. If you aren’t disabled don’t use the disabled toilet. No ifs, no buts,
No maybes.

My bugbear is the only baby change being in the disabled toilet and I have taken it up with a few places but obviously then parents have no choice but it’s still wrong that businesses do it.

Sadly like so many accessible facilities it’s no more than a tick box exercise rather than actually caring for the needs of disabled people.

Society really has gone to shit.

Door rattling was uncalled for, I understand OP finding that annoying... but it happens in regular non-disabled-access loos, too, people just rattle at the door.

Can I offer a different perspective to consider before you get annoyed about this?
I am sight-impaired. I cannot see whether a door is locked or cubicle occupied. All I can do is give it a push or try the handle.
I wish I could do what other people do and just look, but I can't.

Unless I had my cane out, which I often wouldn't have in the toilets, you are unlikely to know this if you saw me.

@CustardCreamm

I have twins and there is no way I'd be able to go into the normal toilet cubicles with my double pram. I always have to use the disabled toilet but that's the way it is and i don't feel bad about it. I think you're being very unreasonable to suggest using the toilet with the door open and the pram propped in front of the door, mothers are humans too believe it or not!

Whilst we're on the subject, maybe disabled users could stop using parent and child parking spaces?

Absolutley not the same, a disabled parking space is a legal requirement and a parent and child space is a courtesy, a blue badge entitles you to use both, my child has a blue badge and we will park in which ever space is safer for him.

I am ready to be flamed on this too. I have IBD (ulcerative colitis) and often need a toilet very urgently. I have had very embarrassing accidents when none is available, it is not a weakness or lifestyle choice.

More than a few times I have been standing outside the disabled toilet because I either desperately need privacy or there is a queue for the regular.

I can hear Mum changing baby, which seems to take forever.

This is clearly a design flaw and designed by someone who thinks people with disabilities can be lumped in with babies needing changing.

I do understand the pram bit but that causes issues too. I don't think it is fair to people who truly need those washrooms that people use them because they have a pram or shopping cart.

I would like to see parents' groups joining forces more with disability advocate groups to campaign for better accessibility. There is so much we have in common. We both need:

• toilets with enough space for a wheelchair/pram
• enough lifts which will only be used by those who can't take the stairs
• accessible train platforms and space on buses
• wide enough shop aisles for wheelchairs/prams
• dropped kerbs on pavements in useful places and pavements not to be blocked by bad parking

And actually some of these are things which elderly people really need as well.

Whilst we're on the subject, maybe disabled users could stop using parent and child parking spaces?

You do realise that actually those with blue badges can perfectly legally park pretty much anywhere.

Even for those without blue badges reasonable adjustment would say to use a p and c space if it made life easier

Cut women with buggies some slack it's difficult as the normal toilets are too small.

@Clangerschick1

‘Use the last cubicle with the door open and pram in the doorway like everyone else does’???????? Are you crazy??? NO-ONE I know has ever done that and I’ve never seen anyone else doing that either thankyou. I’m not having a wee, Poo or changing my sanitary protection with the door open when there’s a perfectly good room to use that will fit the double pram and give me privacy. I think you’re horrible for even suggesting a woman should do that degrading thing when there’s a viable alternative. What an unkind, mean, nasty and selfish attitude to have towards a fellow human being.

Did you even read the OP’s update? Totally unnecessary to be so unpleasant.

Yes I’ve had to leave the door open so I can see the pram. Takes minutes. I’d rather do that then someone potentially soil themselves because they can’t access a toilet.

@Potatoy

All you had to do was wait till they'd finished. ah thing is sometimes it can take a while for some people to get in position to go to the loo. Or it can be suddenly extremely urgent for them to need to go. So sometimes it's not a matter of being able to wait.

This.

I remember a similar(ish) issue at a small public loo, just one male, one female.

A man with a baby and toddler was in the womens. It was the only one with a changing table. Two women (plus me at the end) in a queue, they had a right go at him when he came out about how he shouldn't be in there. He was really apologetic and explained about the changing table but they were having none of it. I stepped out of the queue to help him with the pram and said of course he should use it, what else was he expected to do. I'm a person quite protective of women only facilities but 100% support this man in this womens loo in these circumstances.

I know very many women would disagree with me regarding this man in the toilet though. If I was a wheelchair user I don't think I'd mind people who would really struggle using the disabled toilet.

@bakingdemon

I would like to see parents' groups joining forces more with disability advocate groups to campaign for better accessibility. There is so much we have in common. We both need:

• toilets with enough space for a wheelchair/pram
• enough lifts which will only be used by those who can't take the stairs
• accessible train platforms and space on buses
• wide enough shop aisles for wheelchairs/prams
• dropped kerbs on pavements in useful places and pavements not to be blocked by bad parking

And actually some of these are things which elderly people really need as well.

Disabled people have campaigned for most of those things.

Parents don’t bother as they only need them for a couple of years. So they take advantage for the campaigning disabled people have done while at the same time making life harder for tjem.

It’s not down to those living with disabilities to campaign for better facilities for parents

There are some interesting parallels here with the animosity to women's single-sex spaces being used by trans women.

You can't argue to keep male-bodied people out of single-sex spaces whilst simultaneously saying that convenience justifies able-bodied women using spaces which have been fought for and won by disabled people.

If the current arrangements don't suit you then fight for your own. Don't expropriate someone else's.

Who is the ‘everyone else’ who uses public toilets with the door open and the pram in the doorway? I’ve honestly never seen anyone do this in my life.

This is just my personal experience - I have an invisible disability which enables me to use public disabled toilets. Sometimes someone else is in there, maybe a wheelchair user, or someone with a walker frame, or someone who also has a disability. I would have to wait no matter what their reason was.

If the mother snapped and knocked the door repeatedly that’s rude either way though, but some people are rude.