To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

As a mother of twins and also sister of a seriously disabled sister, I can see both sides. However, disabled toilets are for disabled people and they are few and far between. Disabled people often have to take a considerable time in the toilet and someone rattling the door would be incredibly distressing. Disabled people fought long and hard to get the paltry provision that is out there. Maybe it is now time for mothers to campaign for adequate toilets for mothers with prams and stop using the limited toilet provision that is provided for the disabled.

[quote Kanaloa]@user1496146479

It turns out this poster actually used a sling until her children were old enough to use one of those tiny collapsible buggies. So she actually wasn’t providing a solution for taking a six month old into the cubicle and couldn’t link to a buggy suitable for a six month old that would fit in most public toilet cubicles.[/quote]
Yet again you seem to have trouble with comprehension.

Sling to 3 months then a buggy. What's too hard for you to grasp?

I did provide a solution and there are several small buggies. If you learned how to use Google you'd know that.

But you seem to prefer snide.

Just the sort of person who thinks it's OK to use facilities for the disabled when you aren't entitled.

often have to wait for the disabled toilets, I accept that others also have a right to use it and not just myself.

But they don't.

I agree there should be more family toilets, excited to hop on the campaign those arguing that people should be entitled to use them are obviously going to be setting up.

As I’ve explained multiple times I actually have a disability myself that entitles me to the use of disabled facilities. I also don’t have a baby in a pram. So I am not a mum with a pram incorrectly using disabled facilities. I am a person who is entitled to the disabled toilets but who is happy to share them with a mum who has a pram. I do find it difficult if I have to wait but I accept that as there’s so often only one disabled toilet I can often need to wait for someone else who is disabled.

Honestly I don’t believe there’s a buggy suitable for a small baby that fits in a public toilet stall with the door closed. If there is I’ve never seen one, as most toilet cubicles barely fit me and my daughter standing up in them. And not everybody is able to use a sling, especially if they have two small children.

That’s just my opinion. If I was op (and I often have been in a similar situation) I would feel I had been able to access the suitable facilities for me, after having waited a small amount of time for someone else to use them. OP obviously feels this isn’t good enough, and as I said it would be worth her contacting the aquarium and enquiring to their policy on this toilet so she can possibly return to the aquarium.

@Doodlefare

How on earth do you know they don’t? The lady op saw exiting the toilet could easily have been entitled to the disabled toilets. It’s impossible to know.

@Danceswithtortoises

Your spatial awareness must be absolutely shot if you think it's possible to get yourself and even a small unfolded umbrella fold pushchair into a typical toilet cubicle and then shut the (usually inward opening) door. Added to which my children were too small for an umbrella fold until they were somewhat older.

@Legomania

Thank you! I was starting to think I was going insane with all these people who can fit a buggy in a public toilet when if I take one of my kids in with me we’re totally squashed.

@Kanaloa they're not yours to give away. You might be fine with it, it doesn't mean that others who depend on them are.

Anyway, people will continue to do as they please without regard for others so no point carrying on really. Well done to all of those who's posts made OP leave the thread as they affected her so much.

@Kanaloa

Ha, I know! Who needs the laws of physics anyway(?)

[quote Legomania]@Danceswithtortoises

Your spatial awareness must be absolutely shot if you think it's possible to get yourself and even a small unfolded umbrella fold pushchair into a typical toilet cubicle and then shut the (usually inward opening) door. Added to which my children were too small for an umbrella fold until they were somewhat older.[/quote]
Exactly

[quote Legomania]@Danceswithtortoises

Your spatial awareness must be absolutely shot if you think it's possible to get yourself and even a small unfolded umbrella fold pushchair into a typical toilet cubicle and then shut the (usually inward opening) door. Added to which my children were too small for an umbrella fold until they were somewhat older.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with my spacial awareness. I used the loos in M&S and there was room for me and the buggy. Debenham's were big enough as well.

Something that occurred to me last night when I was laying in bed thinking about this (yes, I am that sad) is that the babies here are being completely ignored. I would never call a baby disabled just because they are a baby with "normal" abilities for their age - but - if you think about it, they need a carer with them wherever they go. They can't walk, they need help toileting, etc etc. In many ways, much like someone in a wheelchair with a broken bone, they are temporarily disabled.

If I had a grown but severely disabled child or care client who was in a wheelchair and/or who couldn't be left alone, and if I needed a pee, would anyone think twice about the two of us popping into the accessible toilet? If I needed to change their nappy, would I be expected to do it on the floor of the standard toilet? No? Then why does that change because it's a baby who can't toilet themselves or be left alone? Babies are people too and so are the people caring for them.

I don't know, just a thought!

Babies are people too and so are the people caring for them.

So why are there not pram friendly cubicles in toilets? Why are disabled people expected to give up their paltry provision ? Why are we not demanding changes to regulations regarding toilet provision, instead of blaming disabled people who want to keep the very limited availability that they have?

Legomania

@Danceswithtortoises

Your spatial awareness must be absolutely shot if you think it's possible to get yourself and even a small unfolded umbrella fold pushchair into a typical toilet cubicle and then shut the (usually inward opening) door. Added to which my children were too small for an umbrella fold until they were somewhat older.

Nothing wrong with my spacial awareness. I used the loos in M&S and there was room for me and the buggy. Debenham's were big enough as well.

Yes, but if they generally were (they're not in my local one), or if some babies weren't too small for them for months, then we wouldn't be having this whole conversation in the first place! (And of course some of the issue is reaching the toilet in the first place eg if up a flight of stairs).

I appear completely ‘normal’ with no disabilities but have a false eye shell. If an eyelash is stuck behind it it is really uncomfortable so I sometimes use the disabled toilet so I can take it out privately and wash it (need mirror and can’t use a compact as need 2 hands to remove and replace eye). I always feel terrible using the disabled toilet and get ‘looks’. There are a lot of people out there with hidden issues and since having part of my eye removed it really makes you realise how judgemental people can be 💐

@334bu don't ask me, I'm not in charge. I do think that many disabled people in this thread have agreed that temporary disabilities (like a broken leg or a non-permanent ostomy) are viable reasons to use the accessible facilities, and that sometimes carers need to pee. Why doesn't this extend to babies, who, until they grow up, can't stand in the hallway looking at their phones for ten minutes while their parent has a slash?
I think if we had a more generous view of accessibility and who needs it, and if parents and disabled people worked together instead of snipping at each other, we might end up with more big stalls and changing tables that accommodate people of all sizes and ages and would that not be a good thing? But far be it from me to get in the way of a good 'ol snip-fest on Mumsnet 😹

@Wroxie

Something that occurred to me last night when I was laying in bed thinking about this (yes, I am that sad) is that the babies here are being completely ignored. I would never call a baby disabled just because they are a baby with "normal" abilities for their age - but - if you think about it, they need a carer with them wherever they go. They can't walk, they need help toileting, etc etc. In many ways, much like someone in a wheelchair with a broken bone, they are temporarily disabled.

If I had a grown but severely disabled child or care client who was in a wheelchair and/or who couldn't be left alone, and if I needed a pee, would anyone think twice about the two of us popping into the accessible toilet? If I needed to change their nappy, would I be expected to do it on the floor of the standard toilet? No? Then why does that change because it's a baby who can't toilet themselves or be left alone? Babies are people too and so are the people caring for them.

I don't know, just a thought!

I had exactly the same thoughts yesterday when posting on this thread but couldn't work out how to articulate it properly. Babies are completely dependent on another, as some people with disabilities might be, so I can definitely see the point you're making.

YABU. Baby change facilities are found in the disabled toilets round here so, funnily enough, I use the disabled when I have baby DS.

[quote Wroxie]@334bu don't ask me, I'm not in charge. I do think that many disabled people in this thread have agreed that temporary disabilities (like a broken leg or a non-permanent ostomy) are viable reasons to use the accessible facilities, and that sometimes carers need to pee. Why doesn't this extend to babies, who, until they grow up, can't stand in the hallway looking at their phones for ten minutes while their parent has a slash?
I think if we had a more generous view of accessibility and who needs it, and if parents and disabled people worked together instead of snipping at each other, we might end up with more big stalls and changing tables that accommodate people of all sizes and ages and would that not be a good thing? But far be it from me to get in the way of a good 'ol snip-fest on Mumsnet 😹[/quote]
😂

It’s normal for a baby to need constant supervision therefore that isn’t any way a disability. Even as babies many disabled babies will need significantly more care that their peers. I don’t think comparing the two helps anyone.

And as for having to lie on the floor in toilets to be changed that is the sad reality for a lot of those who are disabled when they are beyond the size for a standard changing mat as facilties are still so few and far between

Why are we not demanding changes to regulations regarding toilet provision, instead of blaming disabled people who want to keep the very limited availability that they have?

Who is "blaming" disabled people? I personally have repeatedly blamed the places themselves for not having adequate toilet provision for all needs. My only gripe with the OP was her suggestion that mums with prams toilet with the door open, which as I've said a few times is not a very respectful suggestion. I do think provision needs to be expanded in many places to meet the needs of both disabled people and parents with prams.

The two ladies with children who were in the disabled loo before and after the OP may or may not have had invisible disabilities. Or their children might have. We don't know, and I personally am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt there. As for the one who rattled the door handle, I can understand that the OP didn't appreciate that, but as a PP suggested, it could have been anyone. I honestly don't know why people seem to be so certain that no disabled person would ever do that. An elderly man I knew (now deceased) and a friend/former colleague of mine have both done that in my presence. Both of them were and are physically and visibly disabled. It isn't just able bodied people who would do that.

As for me, I was in a disabled lavatory about fifteen years ago, but it wasn't on my own account. My grandmother (also now deceased) was technically able bodied, but she suffered from dementia. My dad, her only child, would sometimes take her and my grandpa out for the day. Being very confused in an unfamiliar place, my grandmother was prone to walking away and becoming lost. This meant that taking her to the toilet was very difficult. She had a tendency to walk away whilst I was attending to my own business (I'll spare you the details). It was the Age UK (Age Concern, in those days) people who suggested and acquired a radar key for us. It meant that both of us could use the loo and wash our hands behind a closed door (or I could change her pad). Physically, neither of us needed a wheelchair, but I don't think anyone with a heart can argue that my gran shouldn't have been using that facility. Technically she was able bodied, but mentally, she just didn't have the capacity to use the ladies loo.

As for myself, I did briefly consider acquiring a radar key through epilepsy action because I was prone to seizures whilst on the toilet. A radar key would have enabled my husband to come into the loo with me and make sure I was safe. Anyway, I dismissed the idea and my husband simply brought me (his disabled wife) into the gents instead. You'll be pleased to know that my seizures are now under control and have been for almost a year. And no, you will be pleased to know that I never set foot inside a disabled lavatory except to look after my gran and quickly relieve myself.

I’m sure by the time we’ve campaigned for more pram friendly facilities and the government accepts and implements the policy our babies will be strapping teeenagers!

So in the meantime I will continue to use the facilities that are accessible to me and my child to ensure we are able to toilet safely and with dignity, whether that be the ladies, accessible or family cubicles.

And no, you will be pleased to know that I never set foot inside a disabled lavatory except to look after my gran and quickly relieve myself.

Quickly relieve myself whilst I was looking after my gran, I mean. Not on any other occasion.

@Winemewhynot

I’m sure by the time we’ve campaigned for more pram friendly facilities and the government accepts and implements the policy our babies will be strapping teeenagers!

So in the meantime I will continue to use the facilities that are accessible to me and my child to ensure we are able to toilet safely and with dignity, whether that be the ladies, accessible or family cubicles.

And this is the problem. Parents are lucky they only face the problem for a couple of years so happily jump on the result of other groups hard work campaigning and as a result makes it harder for everyone who needs to know those facilties are available for their whole life