To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

@Sleepyblueocean

In the example I was replying to, it was a mother and baby/disabled facility. It isn’t right that they are mixed, but in this situation it was. The mother didn’t push her way into a disabled facility, the business chose not to provide separate and ample facilities.

[quote Kanaloa]@wroxie

Well, that’s what ‘everyone else’ apparently does. With the pram in the toilet doorway no less, so you’re extra visible. Another thought would be to find a stranger and have them look after your children while you’re in the loo. Or for convenience perhaps carry a potty around under the pram and just plop it down in the middle of Marks & Spencer and empty it out the window.[/quote]
😂😂 I don't understand what's wrong with that. Look how selfless you are now because that's all that matters. I hope you can fit your pram in to the sink area though to wash your hands after, because we still need have to some hygiene and dignity.

It was a baby changing station in a disabled toilet.

So a mixed facility. If it was only for disabled people then there wouldn’t be a baby change table in it, would there?

[quote Winemewhynot]@sofiegiraffe really I’ve never seen that! Sad the mum doesn’t feel confident to feed in public, but unfortunately there’s a lingering stigma even when it’s a little newborn![/quote]

Yeah Morrisons have them near us - a toilet cubicle for the parent, a changing area and sink, and then a couch / chair to feed on.

People with disabilities can have babies you know.

Or for convenience perhaps carry a potty around under the pram and just plop it down in the middle of Marks & Spencer and empty it out the window.

If anyone questions it just say you're being considerate and leaving the accessible loo free, and also making sure you keep your baby safe. Everyone's a winner.

Yes, and mixed baby change/disabled toilets cater to both disabled people, people with babies, and disabled people with babies.

Yes, I assumed that baby change facilities in a disabled toilet are for use by both able-bodied and disabled parents.

But they are primarily for those with disabilities because the law requires that reasonable adjustment. Anyone using the facility needs to bare that in mind when they are using it.

Okay. So the baby change table is in the disabled toilets, but it isn’t for people to change their babies in? It’s a mixed facility. Both people have the right to use it. Yes, I would probably let a disabled person go ahead of me but you can’t be surprised at someone changing their baby in the designated baby change facility.

@Winemewhynot

Who’s feeding babies in toilets?! Yuk poor baby and mother feeling forced to do that

Any empathy for the disabled girl who wet herself in front of several other people because the family unit refused to stand outside for five minutes?

There should not be mixed facilities. You can’t rely on other people being decent human beings.

@FergusSings of course it’s not a race to the bottom, we all deserve better.

There should not be mixed facilities

On this we agree.

There should be toilets for disabled people who need to use a toilet.

And family sized bathrooms you can fit several people/a pram into.

The two should not be shared.

However as businesses legally have to provide the former, but it is actually the latter that brings in the bigger slice of the income, and there is nothing legally preventing them being a shared facility... this is what we get.

As I said earlier in the thread, parents are a far higher proportion of the population than disabled people.

It would therefore be more effective for parents to campaign to have their own facilities and stop the sharing of facilities, than for the minority group to fight AGAIN to get back the facilities they fought for in the first place.

"Okay. So the baby change table is in the disabled toilets, but it isn’t for people to change their babies in?"

No you have misunderstood. The primary use of the room is as a disabled toilet. The baby change is in there as well. Anyone can use the baby change. But have consideration for those who need to use the room as a disabled toilet and don't use it as feeding room or because it is easier to supervise your toddlers ( as another poster said).

I do have sympathy with the disabled person who wet themselves but did the family know that she couldn't hold on for a few minutes?? Probably not.

Equally on the many disabled people suffer from urgency so need a facility which is available at the drop of a hat so do many mothers. Many new mothers will be suffering from urge incontinence too.

But once mothers get the sudden urge they apparently (according to several people on this thread) gave to run around to find a strange to leave baby with, shit cant find I must instead position my pram with an open door so I can pee with a door open. Alternatively take my baby out with which the lifting action is likely to strain my pelvic floor. Doing all of this chances are the mother has now pissed themselves wheb there was a perfectly valid toilet which they could have used but someone feels it is their right to police and has decided mothers don't deserve safety, dignity or privacy.

I thought the reason for having accessible toilets was so disabled people could go out and about and have safety, privacy and dignity...... a few people on here seem a little hypocritical.

[quote Winemewhynot]@Justrealised but there not just for disabled people are they? Hence why staff are telling mothers to take prams in, hence why they have baby changing facilities installed within them. I really don’t know why this is so difficult for you to understand! Accessible toilets aren’t owned by the disabled they’re for people who are unable to access the standard stalls…like a mother who’s pram doesn’t fit in I really can’t believe some would deprive a mother of having a quick wee just incase a disabled person comes along and has to wait all of a couple of minutes to go next [/quote]
In law there is no duty for baby change facilities to be provided. There is however an anticipatory duty for service providers to make reasonable adjustments for people with disabilities. I'm hoping this is now established and we can agree on these as facts.

The baby change facilities are sometimes not always placed in the accessible loo (accessible for people with disabilities, this is the meaning not accessible for everyone). Let's be honest most places do this because it kills two birds with one stone and it's cheaper.

It's recommended that accessible toilets have a shelf near a bin. Again the baby change kills two birds with one stone.

Accessible toilets are mainly designed to accommodate people with mobility problems in mind (I'm hoping we can all agree on this, it's common sense; bigger doors, hand rails, lower sink etc) that doesn't mean other people with disabilities shouldn't use them just that the main design is for mobility.

My issue isn't that a desperate parent with multiple children in tow and a small bladder uses the toilet or that a baby is changed in there if that's where the facilities are.

My issue is that some people (quite a few posters on here) without disabilities don't consider their own need for facilities and rely on the use of the accessible facilities to meet their needs. The facilities aren't intended to allow a single adult with multiple children or a large pram access, they are intended for the disabled. Many people with disabilities on the other hand have to and do check what facilities are available before visiting anywhere.

I also wonder what the posters do who have prams, multiple kids etc and find that the accessible loo is just a normal size loo with a slightly wider door which is the case in quite a few older buildings or where there isn't an accessible loo at all?

The assumption of many people that "I'll just nip in", "nobody needs it right now" etc is damaging. Many disabled people need access quickly having to queue behind an extending number of people who believe they should be able to use the accessible facilities is damaging and detracting from the original intention of the provision.

We do visit a couple of theme parks regularly that have separate baby change areas, I may start using them to change my son when required rather than the disabled loo which can be quite disgusting and small. I'd love to use a feeding room as a sensory space also but to be honest I just wouldn't and there aren't that many around.

Are they not accessible toilets rather than disabled toilets now?

@Justrealised yep there is no law therefore surely we all need to use a little common sense, eg people who don’t require accessible toilets not using them and disabled people not preventing a mother who does need an accessible toilet but isn’t supported by law but whom is supported by the business itself.

The OP was so selfish to try and prevent that mum entering the accessible toilet after she herself had finished and then went on to further say mother’s should toilet in view of others or leave their child unattended. That’s not using common sense is it? Just as a single person with no additional needs using an accessible toilet isn’t. There’s got to be give and take from all parties.

@Justrealised

So if I call ahead to a venue and I am told there is no separate provision for you and your baby in her pram, you have to use the accessible toilet (many places will no doubt give this advice), are you saying I should just then not go there?

[quote Winemewhynot]@Justrealised yep there is no law therefore surely we all need to use a little common sense, eg people who don’t require accessible toilets not using them and disabled people not preventing a mother who does need an accessible toilet but isn’t supported by law but whom is supported by the business itself.

The OP was so selfish to try and prevent that mum entering the accessible toilet after she herself had finished and then went on to further say mother’s should toilet in view of others or leave their child unattended. That’s not using common sense is it? Just as a single person with no additional needs using an accessible toilet isn’t. There’s got to be give and take from all parties.[/quote]

Very well said.

[quote Winemewhynot]@Justrealised yep there is no law therefore surely we all need to use a little common sense, eg people who don’t require accessible toilets not using them and disabled people not preventing a mother who does need an accessible toilet but isn’t supported by law but whom is supported by the business itself.

The OP was so selfish to try and prevent that mum entering the accessible toilet after she herself had finished and then went on to further say mother’s should toilet in view of others or leave their child unattended. That’s not using common sense is it? Just as a single person with no additional needs using an accessible toilet isn’t. There’s got to be give and take from all parties.[/quote]
There is no give and take though, it's taking provision from the disabled.

I don't think the original posters intention was to stop the mother but it was an assumption that she required baby change (from memory so could be wrong, I haven't gone back to check) and the woman didn't.

This thread has shown multiple times that there are parents who depend on using the accessible facilities when they're out and about rather than making sure they're catered for or planning an alternative such as looking for facilities nearby (this is what many people with disabilities have to do). This isn't being caught short or a once in a blue moon. It's another group depending on the facilities whose use isn't intended for them. Recognition of the need to have quick access to these facilities by some people with disabilities is quite well observed. Putting extra demands on this provision is putting some disabled people back at a disadvantage which the provision and law they were made under was designed to address.

@thefamous5

Are they not accessible toilets rather than disabled toilets now?

They get called both, the politically correct term is accessible toilet. The disabled in disabled toilet refers to the user rather than the provision. It makes no literal sense to call them the disabled toilet and is a 'kinder' word.

If parents want toilets with specific facilities for them, then they need to campaign for it. For most parents though, that time of trying to go to the loo when in charge of small children is but a mere blip in their lives and once they're on the other side, they barely give it a thought.

Disabled people can't move on from their disability.

I think using disabled toilets is no better than parking in spaces reserved for disabled people or refusing to fold your pram for a wheelchair user on the bus.

Just selfish.