To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

@sofiegiraffe

Maybe the mum could petition for better facilities, she won't though, she will continue to just use those for others.

Maybe she could yes. But she's not the person making the thread.

Yes the person making this thread is someone who relies on disabled facilities not being occupied by a stream of people who shouldn't be using them. The mother wouldn't feel the need to create a thread because worst case she could use a regular toilet, and in time it won't be an issue at all for her, therefore she isn't as restricted, it doesn't affect her life and decisions on where to go etc as much as it does for OP.

[quote Legomania]@Doodlefare

The facilities were fine (and I cannot recall finding anyone waiting on the handful of occasions I used an accessible loo that wasn't also a baby change), it was the shitty dismissive attitudes on MN that was the issue. Luckily they weren't representative of the people I encountered out and about.[/quote]
Probably because most people out and about probably didn't rely on the facilities, or didn't feel comfortable saying anything. Online sadly is the one place marginalised groups can often say their piece without being set upon.

@Doodlefare

I accept and respect what you are saying. I just don't know what the solution is other than premises ensuring spaces for everyone, including disabled people and parents with prams.

@Doodlefare Maybe. I can only go by my experiences at the time, which was that there were enough facilities to go around. And the knowledge that certain topics online exist in a bit of an echo chamber that is not reflected in RL.

A big part of the problem is parents have got very used to having the facilties that have been campaigned for so much by disabled people many now use them without second thought which means those who do need them are back to struggling to go out because of lack of space for them.

You realise that if the mum went to the front desk they would explain they already have a suitable facility? They would tell her to use the accessible toilet they provide. There aren’t enough, which is an issue, but the answer to that isn’t taking a shit with the door open. The doors are there, with locks on, for a reason.

And they weren’t occupied by a ‘stream of people.’ OP waited for ONE person to finish in the toilet before she was able to access it. People are acting like a queue of mums smashed her out of the way with their designer prams so they could luxuriate in the disabled toilets. She accessed the appropriate toilet after waiting for one other person to use it.

So op was able to access the provided facility. She unfortunately had to wait - which could happen at any time as if there is only one accessible toilet another disabled person may be using it when you arrive. But she isn’t being barred from going to this place, she isn’t being denied use of the toilet. I am always aware that when I wait for the disabled toilet someone else may be in there, I’m not the only person with a right to use it.

*Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.
*

I agree that it's not right for disabled people to have to share their one toilet with another group of people with different needs, but I think we could do so much better for mothers.

I didn't realise this is what we are supposed to do. I'm glad I'm past that stage because the lack of facilities is a bit shit.

@bakingdemon

I have been that mother left with no choice but to pee with the door open because there are no toilet stalls in the women's loos big enough to take a pram. It is horrid, and shows how little women, especially mothers, are considered in design.

You need to read ‘Invisible Women’ it’s all about this. It actually made me so angry.

@Kanaloa

You realise that if the mum went to the front desk they would explain they already have a suitable facility? They would tell her to use the accessible toilet they provide. There aren’t enough, which is an issue, but the answer to that isn’t taking a shit with the door open. The doors are there, with locks on, for a reason.

And they weren’t occupied by a ‘stream of people.’ OP waited for ONE person to finish in the toilet before she was able to access it. People are acting like a queue of mums smashed her out of the way with their designer prams so they could luxuriate in the disabled toilets. She accessed the appropriate toilet after waiting for one other person to use it.

Exactly. That mum would have been directed to the same toilet she used if she'd asked the staff there. I fail to see how that's her fault? It's the best the business has seen fit to provide for mums with prams. That's on them; not that mum.

The problem is that disabled loos have been renamed “accessible” for everyone who can’t use the male and female cubicles. Because venues can’t be bothered to provide an accessible loo that’s separate to the disabled loo. And they expect the one and only “accessible loo” to be used by disabled people, people with temporary mobility problems, parents, trans or non binary people who prefer not to use gendered facilities, and now they’re telling women who don’t feel comfortable sharing facilities with trans people to use the accessible loo as well.

@Worrysaboutalot Was it The Deep?

I wouldn’t have been able to help myself swiftly telling you to bugger off if you’d questioned why I was using an accessible toilet with pram in hand.

In the same sense that many facilities state whether they are “wheelchair and pushchair friendly” - a bulky, wheeled mode of transport requires adequate access, which a disabled toilet has.

YABU.

I do see your point, but using the toilet when out about with a pram/stroller is difficult. Most public toilets have 2 doors to navigate before getting into. I have on occasions used the end stall and kept the door open, but it's very undignified and I have on occasions used the disabled one if I have needed to change a pad/tampon. There is a large shopping centre about half an hour where we lived and I started going their when dc were small instead of our local town. It had a unisex family toilet with room for a pram, changing facilities, sink toilet and mini toddler size toilet. More of these are needed.

@Kanaloa

So op was able to access the provided facility. She unfortunately had to wait - which could happen at any time as if there is only one accessible toilet another disabled person may be using it when you arrive. But she isn’t being barred from going to this place, she isn’t being denied use of the toilet. I am always aware that when I wait for the disabled toilet someone else may be in there, I’m not the only person with a right to use it.

Well yes, but you're more likely to wait if others are also using it- I'm not sure that concept is too hard to understand.

I agree provisions for parents suck, let's campaign for better ones, whilst not feeling entitled to use others :)

@Doodlefare

She didn’t wait for an extended period of time though. She waited for one person, who may or may not have been disabled. If the problem is a ‘conceptual’ one where op is worried mothers may in the future stop her using the toilet then I don’t know what the solution to that would really be.

OP accessed a suitable toilet, wanted people to agree that others shouldn’t use this toilet even though she was able to easily access it, then said the replied showed everyone thought she was worthless and she would stay in, and everyone else had stopped her kids having a day out.

That isn’t what happened. Nobody stopped her using the toilet, it was accessible to her after waiting for only one person.

I thought it may be a good idea to help move the debate along to find a proper definition for accessible toilet (prams were not mentioned, not even considered) ultimately it comes down to building regulation and the law. Prams aren't considered at all. Wheelchairs are.

Accessible toilets are for the disabled, it is very entitled to use something not meant for you when you know it's wrong.

And the fact that you might be more likely to wait is just pure speculation. OP has said she waited for only one person, so this wasn’t an issue at the time she visited.

@DancesWithTortoises

I'm asking for how would a person with a pram using an accessible toilet. You say carry a 6 month old out of their pram, which is dangerous and unhygienic and not feasible at all. You've said yourself it's very hard, so that shouldn't be an option. Another option would be the parent pissing themselves. There's plenty of things that are very hard to do but we don't do them for safety or wellbeing reasons.

Or do what I did. Buy a buggy that will fit in an ordinary cubicle.

Ha! Some people barely fit In a cubicle, never mind a buggy!

@user1496146479

It turns out this poster actually used a sling until her children were old enough to use one of those tiny collapsible buggies. So she actually wasn’t providing a solution for taking a six month old into the cubicle and couldn’t link to a buggy suitable for a six month old that would fit in most public toilet cubicles.

So x people in a facility are disabled, y number have a pram with them or otherwise feel entitled to use it for whatever reason, which scenario are you more likely to need to wait:

Just x use the toilet
X and y use the toilet

Are you purposefully missing the bit about waiting to go in (fair enough, OP acknowledges they may have had a disability), and then having someone keep trying the handle- which suggests actually it is in use a lot, and 2/3rds potentially of those shouldn't be using it anyway. I know maths isn't everyone's bag but come on.

[quote Kendodd]**@Wroxie
I know she doesn't speak for all.
But the general consensus seems to be that, yes absolutely I should have to use the toilet in the circumstances I described while the disabled loo next door sits empty. Twice I have heard disabled people say they would rather somebody shit themselves than use the disabled. Now I understand that may just be frustration speaking but still.
I was a fool not to use the disabled, it just didn't occur to me at the time though. I would be extremely surprised if, should I ever become disabled, my opinion would change so much that I would begrudge someone with a pushchair using 'my' toilet.[/quote]
So because you allegedly heard two people say that, that suddenly gives you the right to use the disabled toilet despite not being disabled?

Exactly doodlrfare.

And disabled toilets should be empty most of the time because so many disabilities come with urgency issues or bowl and bladder issues and waiting is a major problem

Yes, the person rattling the door was rude. But that could have been anyone. OP was able to access the toilet relatively quickly and easily, and was not in a position to know whether the lady in front of her was disabled.

She was at no point unable to use the facilities. Whether or not people were ‘potentially’ not entitled to use the toilet is irrelevant as op can’t possibly know. I am of course not missing that she had to wait to go in, I specifically said she had to wait, for only one person, and then was able to access the facilities.

I often have to wait for the disabled toilets, I accept that others also have a right to use it and not just myself. Sometimes theirs people are also disabled, sometimes a mum with a pram who can’t access the other toilets.

I did suggest OP got in touch with the aquarium and ask what their policy is on this, as I’m willing to bet they allow or even encourage this.

And if someone who has urgency issues knows that somewhere is set up so the only disabled toilet is in very regular use then of course it will make it harder for them to be able to visit.