To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

@Namechanger0800

I'm absolutely astounded by this thread and greatly saddened as well. Accessible toilets are not for anyone who wants to use them they're for people with disabilities, including invisible impairments which mean they have the right to an accessible bathroom - this is a reasonable adjustment campaigned for by disability rights groups and underpinned by the equality act. Having a disability is a protected characteristic

Having a pram is not an impairment or a protected characteristic and I think to blithely say you have an equal right to that accessible bathroom is hugely ignorant and massively dismissive of our fellow human beings with disabilities who only have this option of the accessible facilities to use.

OP I do t know if you are still reading this and I hope you are ok. I hope you feel able to contact the aquarium and raise this issue with them and I do hope you receive a more thoughtful and considerate response than you have here.

Me too, unfortunately most people are selfish and just think of themselves. As has been touched upon earlier in the thread, most parents won't bother campaigning for family toilets as it only affects them for a small amount of time, and they're happy enough just using loos hard fought for by a minority group who struggle through the day in a world largely designed for the able bodied.

[quote paddlingon]@Justrealised I'm making a total hash of trying to make this point.

I worked for Mencap for five years I understand that some people require assistance out and about.

That isn't the same as someone who could manage by themselves being told that if they don't have a companion they shouldn't be allowed to access a toilet.

That as a single person they have no right to expect access to a toilet.

No one for example offers a companion ticket for single mothers so that they can access toilet facilities yet it was suggested that they should have a companion if they wanted to use the loo.

My poorly made point was that it wouldn't be ok to say someone who is disabled
"yes, you can use a loo by yourself but because you are disabled you need a friend with you"
And it isn't ok to say that to a single mum either.
There is an accessible space that both the people above can use.

[/quote]
I kind of in a roundabout way understand way.

Companion tickets aren't offered to mums because being a parent isn't a disability. As a parent you have options/ choices, people do not choose to have a disability. As s single parent you can access whatever facility you like as equally as any other non disabled person, a disabled person needs these adjustments, made usually to comply with the equality act whether that be a disabled toilet or companion ticket, being a single parent isn't protected under law and there is no right to adjustments in the same way being disabled does.

Justifying using facilities that are there for the disabled so they can access somewhere that without they wouldn't be able to by saying it is more convenient/ easier etc isn't right.

Single parents can choose to take an adult with them if they need to, they can rearrange a trip etc a disabled person cannot choose to not be disabled.

Having a child isn't a disability, they do not require reasonable adjustments for equality.

Yanbu, disabled toilets should not be used by everyone, radar key prevents a lot of misuse. Women's toilets should have a lot more space, to bring in prams, but that's a seperate issue and doesn't mean disabled toilets should be use instead.

I have not read the full thread.

Op- your ire should be directed at the aquarium for not providing enough family / pram friendly toilets.

[quote 3cats4poniesandababy]@LouNatics really you expect me to habd my baby to some strabger to watch. Yes it would be lovely if we lived in a society where that was safe but we don't.
You can not compare helping someone with some shopping with handing my child over to a strange while I go behind a door and have my knickers round my ankles!!

So many people seem to be missing that accessible toilets are there for anyone who struggles to access small cubicles.

Woman are not trying to take away toilets from disabled people they are simply trying to access facilities which have been put in place for those who need them. I am sure many mothers supported the campaign for accessible toilets. Yes there are some chances but the way some people seem to think dealing with periods with an open door, holding a baby on lap while peeing or leaving a baby with a stranger are options and choices is madness.[/quote]
Agree with this.

It's a tricky one. There should be more accessible toilets I think. I used to do a weekly walk in a park. I had two non walking babies and couldn't get the pram through the entrance to the ladies toilet. So I used the disabled loo (no other toilets nearby).

I now have two children with invisible disabilities. We often get stared at when using the disabled loo, especially with my boy who looks like a teen when he is late Primary age who still needs help with wiping from time to time or dressing. He's too old to go in the ladies (who won't appreciate seeing a half naked pubescent child in the loos) and needs my help so I can't go in the men's.

Single parents can choose to take an adult with them if they need to,

This is a lovely idea but it isn't always true. Certainly I didn't always have that choice although it was great when I did.

I certainly understand that people with disabilities are going to be impacted by them 24/7 and need their adjustments.
I totally support them having those adjustments.

I also at the same time support single parents often mums having support when they need it. Particularly when it is something as basic as access to a loo.

I don't think that this needs to be an either or situation both groups can usually in my experience be accommodated.

No one should accept peeing in public as a solution and no organization or business would expect them to.
Legally enforceable shouldn't be the acceptable baseline standard basic public decency should be and in my experience it was.

My mother is able bodied but regularly shits herself. She often rushes in the disabled loo because it’s urgent. I suppose it depends if you class that as “disabled enough” to be allowed to use the disabled loo. She also has learning difficulties and would likely rattle the door handle if she needed to go in. I don’t think you can police who uses the disabled loo or judge who needs it. Just because someone is a mother with a pram doesn’t mean she’s not also disabled.

Your anger should be with the organisation not providing adequate toilets for people with prams not the mum.
Ive used many an accessible loo when my baby was tiny. There was no way you would catch me peeing with the door open. What a stupid comment.

@HappyDays40

Your anger should be with the organisation not providing adequate toilets for people with prams not the mum. Ive used many an accessible loo when my baby was tiny. There was no way you would catch me peeing with the door open. What a stupid comment.

Why should OP, a disabled mother be angry on behalf of those with prams, shouldn't they be angry that they aren't catered for and campaign for better facilities, just like disabled people did?

@hassletassle

I have not read the full thread.

Op- your ire should be directed at the aquarium for not providing enough family / pram friendly toilets.

Again, why is it up to OP to be annoyed about that? The aquarium provide a disabled toilet, the ire should be from families, not someone who has the requirement for their facilities enshrined in law.

Again, why is it up to OP to be annoyed about that?

It's not - but she very evidently is, hence this thread in the first place. She also suggested mums with prams lose all dignity and use the toilet with the door open (not an acceptable suggestion by most people's standards), yet she was able to make a suggestion albeit an inappropriate one. So surely she can see that the more obvious solutions for the place she visited to cater for all groups?

@sofiegiraffe

Again, why is it up to OP to be annoyed about that?

It's not - but she very evidently is, hence this thread in the first place. She also suggested mums with prams lose all dignity and use the toilet with the door open (not an acceptable suggestion by most people's standards), yet she was able to make a suggestion albeit an inappropriate one. So surely she can see that the more obvious solutions for the place she visited to cater for all groups?

That is the obvious solution, but not up to her to fight for it, perhaps the people who need to use them should. The suggestion wasn't ideal, but neither is OP not being able to access facilities when she needs to, a lot of people miss the point that for many with disabilities they physically cannot use other toilets. There aren't even inappropriate or annoying workarounds, it's very limiting.

@Doodlefare

I didn't say it was up to her to fight for it. Your question was why is it up to OP to be annoyed about it. She already is. And she's already making (inappropriate) solutions. So my point was she can surely see that what's really needed is sufficient facilities for everyone. In that sense her anger towards the mum using the bathroom is, I feel, misplaced.

I think my point is, when pps are saying to OP "you need to be angry at the company", they aren't saying "it's your job to campaign for better". They are meaning "your anger towards the mum is misdirected and is better directed at the company, because it's not the mum's fault there is no provision for her".

@sofiegiraffe

Again, why is it up to OP to be annoyed about that?

It's not - but she very evidently is, hence this thread in the first place. She also suggested mums with prams lose all dignity and use the toilet with the door open (not an acceptable suggestion by most people's standards), yet she was able to make a suggestion albeit an inappropriate one. So surely she can see that the more obvious solutions for the place she visited to cater for all groups?

Mums did that for years and years before they decided to start using the disabled toilets. You only need to leave the door open a tiny crack to see the pram. No one is suggesting you leave the door wide open!

@Clymene

I quote, from the OP:

Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Suggesting that mums should "put the pram in the toilet doorway" sounds to me a bit different to "leave the door slightly ajar". In any case, I don't find this an acceptable solution, so I won't be doing it. Along with many other women who value their right to dignity and privacy when using a toilet.

This thread shows how much MN has changed. And maybe how society has changed.

If this had been posted 6 or 7 years ago there would have been overwhelming support for OP and other disabled people and condemnation of those using facilities intended for disabled people.

It's become a very selfish me me me world. I think that's really sad.

@sofiegiraffe

I think my point is, when pps are saying to OP "you need to be angry at the company", they aren't saying "it's your job to campaign for better". They are meaning "your anger towards the mum is misdirected and is better directed at the company, because it's not the mum's fault there is no provision for her".

Maybe the mum could petition for better facilities, she won't though, she will continue to just use those for others.

@DancesWithTortoises

This thread shows how much MN has changed. And maybe how society has changed.

If this had been posted 6 or 7 years ago there would have been overwhelming support for OP and other disabled people and condemnation of those using facilities intended for disabled people.

It's become a very selfish me me me world. I think that's really sad.

My eldest child is nearly 6 now. Yep, I saw plenty of it on MN when I was a new parent -

Just leave the door open and wedge the pushchair in
Just hold the baby on your lap while urinating and then do yourself back up
Just use a sling
Just fold your pushchair on a moving bus while holding your baby and your shopping

So much disdain for new mothers who couldn't manage that. I wish I'd pushed back then on MN rather than feeling guilty for the odd time I used a disabled loo (and I am lucky to live in a large town where there are family loos). And of course I did get more confident. But boy was it crappy reading about how if only I was more robust none of this stuff would be a problem. And it's still a lot of the same posters as it always was, except on this thread they didn't get their pile-on.

(And no, I don't use disabled parking or the wheelchair space on buses).

@Legomania guessing access to certain toilets isn't an issue for you now you don't have a pram, keen to hear what you did to try and push for more appropriate facilities though seen as though it's something you obviously struggled with?

So your solution to ensuring your right to privacy and dignity @sofiegiraffe is to reduce access to facilities for a more vulnerable group

Go you!

@Clymene

So your solution to ensuring your right to privacy and dignity *@sofiegiraffe* is to reduce access to facilities for a more vulnerable group

Go you!

Well, in the absence of being able to build a toilet facility for myself that meets my needs as a mum with a baby in a pram, I'm going to use whatever facility is provided on the premises that enables me to use a toilet with dignity, and keep my baby safe.

Maybe the mum could petition for better facilities, she won't though, she will continue to just use those for others.

Maybe she could yes. But she's not the person making the thread.

@Doodlefare

The facilities were fine (and I cannot recall finding anyone waiting on the handful of occasions I used an accessible loo that wasn't also a baby change), it was the shitty dismissive attitudes on MN that was the issue. Luckily they weren't representative of the people I encountered out and about.