To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

I understand your frustration OP but you’re directing it at the wrong person.

Yes it incredibly rude of her to keep rambling the door whilst you were on the toilet and frankly I would have been very rude to her once I had opened the door. What she did was just not on.

But to deliberately block a woman in her situation from using the toilet? Sorry that’s entitled and spiteful. She also has a right to dignity and privacy when using the toilet and it’s not her fault that the aquarium doesn’t facilitate pram users. Esspecially now with men demanding access to women’s facilities I would hope that women would be more supportive of each other’s need to be able to use s toilet safely.

Using that particular toilet I mean

I have to take my three children into the disabled toilet sometimes when I take them out on my own. My eldest is autistic and gets extremely anxious about public toilets. He may not look disabled so anyone seeing us would assume we didn’t need to use the disabled loo but you just don’t know anyone else’s circumstances. We don’t have a radar key so would have to ask a staff member which would cause my son more anxiety & stress for no good reason. He does often wear a sunflower lanyard for this very reason because are very quick to judge/tut/comment which upsets him. You are entitled to a toilet that you can use but you are not entitled to exclusive use of public facilities- other people need to use them too and no one group of people’s needs are more important than anyone else’s. The lady shouldn’t have been rude/ snippy but maybe she was having a god-awful day or dealing with PND or post-birth continence issues or on the verge of a nervous breakdown- you just don’t know.

@Worrysaboutalot

From the link up thread or accessible toilet? – The world of accessible toilets (accessible-toilet-project.blog)

“A designated toilet for disabled people is described as an ‘accessible’ toilet.”

“The purpose of an accessible toilet should be to enable disabled people to gain prompt access to facilities that might be different from regular toilets in terms of the available space, layout, equipment, flooring, lighting etc. i.e. removing the disabling barriers and restrictions that might be present in regular toilets.”

Accessible toilet is for people with disabilities NOT for mothers with a buggy

But this is the point they are - this is what businesses advise this is what the training says!

Esspecially now with men demanding access to women’s facilities I would hope that women would be more supportive of each other’s need to be able to use s toilet safely.

So women’s spaces should be protected, rightly so. But disabled people’s spaces should be a free for all?

I do sympathise and agree with your point about the lock. Could you email them and ask? It's definitely not unreasonable. However just a point about the mother with a pram. I have had to use a disabled toilet because I was unable to get into the toilets with a pram when I was on my own - it was an awkward entrance and the pram wouldn't fit. Other times I've had to block the toilet door with my pram to have a wee because companies do not put toilets in the baby change and I'm not leaving my baby outside the toilet alone in the pram. Absolutely no one else should use the disabled toilet (and expecting to get flamed myself for using it) but it's not always that simple

I love threads like this. Op unless they have toilets big enough for the woman to take the pram inside then she has every right to use that toilet. I have a bowel condition so I use whichever toilet is nearest. I’ve had comments and frankly I just ignore them. However if someone physically blocked me from entering a Toilet you’d regret it

Not free for all @TheFairyCaravan. Where did I write that?

sparklyblue81 That sound hard, clearly you are entitled to use the disabled toilets.

Do you have any local Lloyds pharmacies near you? You can buy an official radar key off them. I think you just sign a declaration of need on behalf of your son. They are kept behind the counter but you can ring and check before you go.

Or buy one online. Get one off the properly made official key not a cheap eBay that might not fit or might break off in the lock!

If neither of them are suitable options, PM me and I will send you my spare key free of charge and I will cover the postage. I know how hard toilet access can be (((hugs)))

@LaBellina

Not free for all *@TheFairyCaravan*. Where did I write that?

You didn't. It's a silly phrase IMO, because what isn't being appreciated is that there is no viable alternative that anyone has been as yet able to offer or suggest for mums with prams!

Exactly my point @sofiegiraffe.

@Worrysaboutalot

From the link up thread or accessible toilet? – The world of accessible toilets (accessible-toilet-project.blog)

“A designated toilet for disabled people is described as an ‘accessible’ toilet.”

“The purpose of an accessible toilet should be to enable disabled people to gain prompt access to facilities that might be different from regular toilets in terms of the available space, layout, equipment, flooring, lighting etc. i.e. removing the disabling barriers and restrictions that might be present in regular toilets.”

Accessible toilet is for people with disabilities NOT for mothers with a buggy

I think it's absolutely shocking and shameful how people are responding to you in this thread.

Not that I'm truly shocked, having been disabled for a while! There is so much resentment out there towards wheelchair users for anything that accommodates us or supports us to access normal life.

Just a bit sad, really

How can you be so shocked at the attitude towards disability given how dismissive you are of invisible disabilities?

It seems you want respect for YOUR disability, while refusing to respect others’ needs.

Innocenta Yes, the thread has made me cry twice already in despair.

My life is so much harder than it was. When I was a mum of young four kids with a chronic bowel condition, it was so much easier than what I have to deal with daily now. The majority of posters on this thread have no idea how hard life can really be.

How I have to research, plan and check so many elements to even risk a day out but one entitled person can cancel our planned day out because . It is so upsetting.

Thanks to those who have reported this thread to us.

We'd just like to remind everyone we take a dim view of posts suggesting that it's wrong to implement measures that enable people with disabilities to live a full life. Such posts don't fit with Mumsnet's basic philosophy of support and advice for all parents. We also ask that you consider the challenges many parents of children with disabilities, or who have disabilities themselves, face on a daily basis.

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@Kanaloa

How can you be so shocked at the attitude towards disability given how dismissive you are of invisible disabilities?

It seems you want respect for YOUR disability, while refusing to respect others’ needs.

I HAVE two invisible disabilities, therefore I have a very good attitude and understanding of other people and children who have invisible disabilities. I have stated that several times on this thread, try reading my posts.

All people and children with invisible disabilities ARE entitled to use a disabled toilet.

There is no disability trumps. It is a first come, first served when you get to the disabled toilet. It is irrelevant if the disability is physical, invisible or both. However I would always try to let kids in front of me if possible (AKA I hadn't already had an accident)

It is abled bodied mothers and prams who are NOT entitled to use disabled toilets and should be campaigning for more family rooms.

@Kanaloa

How can you be so shocked at the attitude towards disability given how dismissive you are of invisible disabilities?

It seems you want respect for YOUR disability, while refusing to respect others’ needs.

I've said, literally multiple times, that I have zero problem with people with invisible disabilities using the disabled loo.

I've said that when I'm out with other people and they look askance at someone who doesn't 'look disabled' going in or coming out - I discreetly remind them about invisible disabilities.

I've said that I have never challenged anyone using a disabled loo - precisely because of invisible disabilities!

What you actually resent is not my attitude towards invisible disabilities, which I've just recapitulated yet again, and which is totally affirming and respectful. What you resent is the fact that I draw any distinction at all that marks out the needs of wheelchair users - even though those needs are separate in some ways. (For example, as discussed downthread, the likelihood of damaging a multi-thousand £ piece of equipment if you wet or soil in a wheelchair.)

It is abled bodied mothers and prams who are NOT entitled to use disabled toilet

How callous to want to refuse a fellow mother the opportunity to safely toilet with her baby what is wrong with people!

@Worrysaboutalot

Innocenta Yes, the thread has made me cry twice already in despair.

My life is so much harder than it was. When I was a mum of young four kids with a chronic bowel condition, it was so much easier than what I have to deal with daily now. The majority of posters on this thread have no idea how hard life can really be.

How I have to research, plan and check so many elements to even risk a day out but one entitled person can cancel our planned day out because . It is so upsetting.

I'm so sorry it's upset you so much, but at the same time I can really see why. So many of us who are chair users have, like you and me, lived with invisible disabilities for years - we know what it's like to struggle in a normal loo. We've tried all kinds of things to make it work. And at some point ended up with the chair and no more options, no more choices, are left.

I really wish people would just think about how they'd feel if they were a wheelchair user with no other option but the one loo. As we've (chair users) been saying again and again on this thread - it's not about being nasty to people or thinking the worst. I would literally always assume invisible disability if someone was using the disabled loo. I'd let someone go in before me if they asked / said they were desperate.

But nothing changes the fact that there is only one loo for us, and people mostly won't even so much acknowledge that being a chair user is a unique challenge.

The only reason I'm even able to talk about it is because it's not immediately a risk to me - 'thanks' to Covid and being CEV. But I know it will be a nightmare again whenever my docs say I can finally stop shielding.

@Winemewhynot

It is abled bodied mothers and prams who are NOT entitled to use disabled toilet

How callous to want to refuse a fellow mother the opportunity to safely toilet with her baby what is wrong with people!

Because if disabled toilets are open to all mothers, then I can not use it and therefore that venue is closed to me and my children.

It is not fair to my children, we still need to go to children friendly places which are full of other families.

So either allow families who has a physical or invisible disability in their family (parent or child) to visit by providing and protecting a disabled toilet.

Or tell these families that able bodied families are more important and they need our toilets more than us. Even though there is no alternative for us. So guess we stay home another day ?

@Winemewhynot

It is abled bodied mothers and prams who are NOT entitled to use disabled toilet

How callous to want to refuse a fellow mother the opportunity to safely toilet with her baby what is wrong with people!

I don't understand it either

@Worrysaboutalot but you had finished toileting and attempted to prevent a mother entering? That’s just petty and selfish.

Why is it either/or?

the accessible toilet is available for wheelchair users AND mothers with prams.

Why should other children be banned from days out because they have a baby sibling?

@Worrysaboutalot
Why can't you also use it? I don't see how allowing mothers with prams who are alone and have no other option and no one to watch their baby (surely a small proportion relatively) precludes you from also using the toilet? Why can't both parties use it?

@Worrysaboutalot

I wasn’t implying you didn’t care about invisible disabilities, I was responding to another poster at that time, who seems to believe those in a wheelchair should have priority, while those who are mobile but with invisible disabilities, should attempt to use the other toilets.

Unfortunately I don’t feel wheelchair users should have priority. This isn’t because I have any form of hatred for wheelchair users, but simply because like you I believe it’s a first come situation.