To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

@Kendodd it doesn't matter if 297 people who claim to be disabled come in this thread and say that you should piss yourself rather than getting near the disabled toilet. The point is that you literally decided they were a monolith and said "fuck the disabled". Try replacing disabled with any other protected group or minority and see how that sounds. It's not too late to apologise and ask MNHQ to delete that comment.

Autism is a huge spectrum @Innocenta my severely autistic non verbal eleven year has only just come out of pull ups in the past 12 months, so yeah if he needed changing i would change him in a disabled toilet,
We also have a blue badge and a mobility car for him as he meets the criteria under severe mental impairment, but to look at him hes fully mobile

I wouldn’t be able to fit my pram into most cubicles and I wouldn’t use the toilet with the door open anyway. Also if I had to choose between making op wait two minutes for the accessible toilet and letting my baby out of sight for two minutes in a public place… I’d use the accessible toilet. Just being honest.

I agree it’s shit and I have met many people through work who have to plan their life around toilet trips, it really stunts their personal life and it can be soul destroying. I can see how upset op is by this. so although I’d use an accessible toilet with a pram, it’s not because of disrespect for people with impairments that affect them going to the toilet.

@TheFairyCaravan

Disabled or accessible toilet?

Most of you need to read this.

That’s a fantastic article.

Sadly the people who believe accessible means a free for all won’t even bother reading it let alone letting themselves learn from it.

another thread full of women telling disabled women to move over.
everyone is just a car crash away from a disability.

The particular occasion was the first time we had come across a radar key loo. She hadn't been in the wheelchair for long. I pushed her to the disabled loo, found the door locked and asked the staff to unlock it. They said they couldn't you needed a RADAR key. We didn't have one.

Luckily Mum has full control of her bladder, we'd finished our meal and it wasn't far to the theatre where we were going after our meal and she used their disabled loo.

I looked into it at the time and the radar website gave the impression that she wouldn't qualify for a key so we left it there. She'd just been turned down for a blue badge so it felt like just another kick in the teeth.

She manages with sticks/crutches now so uses the main loo unless there is a flight of stairs so it isn't so much of a problem now, but my god it felt shitty to be told she couldn't use the toilet.

@sofiegiraffe

But it isn't an option for you. The facilities aren't for your needs.

Yes it is an option. It's the only option that currently meets my needs.

Exactly this. The only solution I've heard to this is to leave the door open. Or that bigger buildings such as shopping centres or services have seperate rooms, but no ones come up with a solution for smaller businesses in cramped spaces. What happens then?

I want to hear solutions, not just ' why don't you campaign for them' because most businesses won't be able to accommodate it so toilets will be multi use.

You suggest peeing with the door open, but what when the mother has 3 dc not 1. The second lady was rude but if there is no family toilet there isn't really another option, and as you say they could easily have hidden disabilities. Perhaps lady 2 was desperate because of one?!

You know I’m really disgusted at the attitude that certain disabilities/needs don’t matter and others are important. Just because you’re in a wheelchair doesn’t mean your needs are first and nobody else is ‘as disabled’ as you. You are just one disabled person, it isn’t called a ‘wheelchair toilet.’ It’s a very selfish way of thinking. Other people, with other disabilities, are just as entitled to use the disabled toilets as you are.

@Samcro

another thread full of women telling disabled women to move over. everyone is just a car crash away from a disability.

Literally no one is saying that.

And I would be willing to guarantee if you wheeled your pram up to reception and asked the Aquarium staff ‘where can I leave my pram if I need the loo’ they’d say ‘use the disabled.’

As someone with a right to use the disabled toilet, I expect to occasionally wait. Sometimes you need to wait - is it pleasant, no. It’s just life though.

@x2boys

Autism is a huge spectrum *@Innocenta* my severely autistic non verbal eleven year has only just come out of pull ups in the past 12 months, so yeah if he needed changing i would change him in a disabled toilet, We also have a blue badge and a mobility car for him as he meets the criteria under severe mental impairment, but to look at him hes fully mobile

I'm fully aware that autism is a spectrum. Multiple posters in this thread have spoken exclusively about stress, discomfort and distress as reasons for autistic people to use the disabled loo.

I'm not even saying those are invalid reasons! Just that they don't totally impede using the regular loos.

Obviously if the accessible loo has the only changing facility, that's different. Although it sounds like what your DC needs is an adult sized changing room (which ideally everywhere should provide).

@badacorn

I wouldn’t be able to fit my pram into most cubicles and I wouldn’t use the toilet with the door open anyway. Also if I had to choose between making op wait two minutes for the accessible toilet and letting my baby out of sight for two minutes in a public place… I’d use the accessible toilet. Just being honest.

I agree it’s shit and I have met many people through work who have to plan their life around toilet trips, it really stunts their personal life and it can be soul destroying. I can see how upset op is by this. so although I’d use an accessible toilet with a pram, it’s not because of disrespect for people with impairments that affect them going to the toilet.

Exactly. It's not about disrespect or entitlement. It's about necessity and there being no other suitable options for those with prams.

@Kanaloa

You know I’m really disgusted at the attitude that certain disabilities/needs don’t matter and others are important. Just because you’re in a wheelchair doesn’t mean your needs are first and nobody else is ‘as disabled’ as you. You are just one disabled person, it isn’t called a ‘wheelchair toilet.’ It’s a very selfish way of thinking. Other people, with other disabilities, are just as entitled to use the disabled toilets as you are.

So you think a wheelchair user who can't wait should wet or soil their chair just to reaffirm the 'equivalence' of someone with an invisible disability who physically can use a regular loo?

@Kanaloa

And I would be willing to guarantee if you wheeled your pram up to reception and asked the Aquarium staff ‘where can I leave my pram if I need the loo’ they’d say ‘use the disabled.’

As someone with a right to use the disabled toilet, I expect to occasionally wait. Sometimes you need to wait - is it pleasant, no. It’s just life though.

This is why I plan to call ahead to the places I'm going to be visiting to ask just this- what facility will you provide for me to use the toilet with my baby next to me in the pram. I fully expect "use the disabled" to be the answer from at least a few of these places. But out of interest for this topic I will report back.

@Wroxie

@Kendodd it doesn't matter if 297 people who claim to be disabled come in this thread and say that you should piss yourself rather than getting near the disabled toilet. The point is that you literally decided they were a monolith and said "fuck the disabled"

Yes you're right, I apologise and reserve my annoyance for only the disabled people who prefer people shit themselves, pee without privacy, leave their children unattended or face other great struggles using the loo.

You are definitely not being unreasonable. I've worked with disabled people and now have a disabled husband. My last two clients and my husband all had the same problem, which is "If I need the loo I need it NOW". It's hard enough if you have to wait for a genuinely disabled person (and I include hidden disabilities in that. You shouldn't have to wait for someone because she doesn't want to leave her pram outside.
And yes, I've done the "Pull the pram after you into the end loo and leave the door open trick". If you're at the far end nobody can see you.

[quote Kendodd]**@Wroxie

@Kendodd it doesn't matter if 297 people who claim to be disabled come in this thread and say that you should piss yourself rather than getting near the disabled toilet. The point is that you literally decided they were a monolith and said "fuck the disabled"

Yes you're right, I apologise and reserve my annoyance for only the disabled people who prefer people shit themselves, pee without privacy, leave their children unattended or face other great struggles using the loo.[/quote]

Well said.

You shouldn't have to wait for someone because she doesn't want to leave her pram outside.

Find me a caring mother who wants to leave their baby's pram outside, ffs. This thread is like another planet

@Innocenta

And do you think someone with a stoma should leak everywhere and not be able to clean themselves? Or should they change their bag in the middle of the public toilets, using the hand washing sinks in the middle of the room to clean themselves?

Of course I don’t think someone with a wheelchair should be denied access to the toilet. But neither should those with other disabilities. Many with hidden/invisible disabilities cannot use the regular toilets. It isn’t split into wheelchair users and healthy able bodied people. I don’t think you’ll be able to understand that though.

I originally voted that the OP was nbu. After reading the thread and listening to the struggles of others, including reflecting back to my own experiences, I've lost sympathy for her and wish I'd voted yabu.
I was a fool not to also think of my own comfort, dignity and safety of my children when they were little and use the disabled.

[quote Wroxie]**@Innocenta* do you think that a permanent toileting accessibility requirement (as described by @cashoncollection*) is less important than a permanent one, or one not caused by childbirth? I had a temporary ostomy years ago after a car wreck- luckily only for a few months. Was that less deserving of dignity and privacy than a permanent one?
No one here is saying that they want to use the accessible for fun so they can stretch their legs and relax a bit. They have described genuine needs -some more difficult than others but all genuine. Who is in charge of deciding what's an OK reason or what isn't? Is it you? Would you like to outline your requirements in detail so we all understand?[/quote]
In my opinion, someone with a temporary ostomy absolutely 'qualifies' and should either get a radar key or request staff to unlock the disabled loo.

A lot of the 'requirements' people describe are not really necessities but situations where it would be a bit more convenient or a bit more comfy. Even in these situations, I'm not actually all that 'strict' about who gets to use a loo and in real life, I'm normally the one trying to shut up the rest of my group as they try to give glare-y looks and sighs at whoever made us wait! So please don't presume I'm going around shit-talking people with invisible disabilities.

However, in this thread people are constantly insisting that wheelchair users have no increased or extra necessity of using the disabled loo. And that just... is not true. Sorry, but it isn't. If you don't understand that then you have no insight into life with a significant mobility-related disability.

(None of this affects me right now as am CEV and have gone nowhere since February 2020.)

PlanDeRaccordement
I voted YABU purely because how would a disabled tourist know about radar locks and have ability to unlock them? Aquariums aren’t just for local population. You will have international disabled tourists who could need them.

@Worrysaboutalot
“Every disabled toilet with a radar key I have seen to date, has a sign saying our staff will open this door for you, just ask. It just stops the chancers, who could use the ladies/mens toilets but can't be bothered. Most people who need the disabled toilet will carry their own radar key. Those who don't have the option to ask staff to open it for them, including tourists.”

Yes, but I know many women with incontinence or IBS as their disability requiring fast immediate access to a disabled toilet. I can well imagine them rushing to the toilet then trying to decipher a sign in English and then soiling themselves while trying to find the right staff member who can unlock the toilet for them. It’s never a good policy to lock disabled toilets with radar locks in my opinion.

[quote Kendodd]**@Wroxie

@Kendodd it doesn't matter if 297 people who claim to be disabled come in this thread and say that you should piss yourself rather than getting near the disabled toilet. The point is that you literally decided they were a monolith and said "fuck the disabled"

Yes you're right, I apologise and reserve my annoyance for only the disabled people who prefer people shit themselves, pee without privacy, leave their children unattended or face other great struggles using the loo.[/quote]
It's sad that you hate disabled people so much. You really need to think about why you believe it's acceptable to show such flagrant ableism in 2021.

FYI OP, you can buy a Radar key off ebay very easily. They are a deterrent not fool proof but anyone can get one to be honest.

YABVU to suggest a woman (potentially feeling vulnerable having just had a baby, if you are saying EVERY mother should) should shit with the door open just because you had to wait 5 mins/had the door handle rattled on a LOCKED door.

And before you say "I wouldn't have to wait if it was disable use only", there are so many other disabled people who may take 10x longer to use the bathroom due to far more complex needs etc, than a woman taking a 2 minute piss with a buggy in there.